..to struggle to comprehend huge salaries?

[missbunnyrabbit]

I was reading the thread about how much people earn having been to grammar/private schools and I just cannot get my head around how much lots of people earn. My head just cannot imagine such huge salaries. People earning over 100k, what on earth do they even do with that money? Do they buy everything gold-plated? That's a joke BUT I have no idea what anyone does with that sort of money or what it could be needed for. This isn't a bashing thread or anything like that. I'm just a bit stunned.

Does anyone else's brain struggle to imagine such huge amounts of money?

@Tobchette

Another reason I think there is such a contrast in two groups/opinions on this thread is because in one world (world B) there is something called the salary game, and in the other world (A) there isn't.

In world A your profession has a salary dictated to you. The job has "bands", an advertised salary, and pay increases/bonuses that are pretty much set in stone. So you enter the workplace after an apprenticeship or degree grad program, on quite a low salary, and your salary progression is laid out for the rest of your working days. If you can reach band c, you will get this much. But it's so far from 100k despite years of work. It's predictable, comfortable and it feels nice to have a plan. But 100k, no way.

In world B, salary is fluid. It's like a game of snakes and ladders but you have some control over the roll of the dice. You also start low but you move around the board and you negotiate at every stage. You spend a good percentage of your working time thinking about how you can negotiate for more at your next review. You try to organize your tasks strategically so that you can work them into your performance discussion. You build relationships that can influence salary. So a big portion of your time and effort goes into salary development. Even if you are hired and not self employed, you have to think like you are self employed, you are your own business and you need to be constantly increasing your prices. If at the end of the year you are earning the same, it's not really a successful one.

It's not just hard work or responsibility - nurses and care home staff work incredibly hard and long hours and they are responsible for peoples lives. But the salary is the salary. No matter how hard they work, the pay opportunity won't change.

It takes a certain kind of personality to succeed in world B. You're not just working hard but also strategically. Lots of people saying they are earning 100k and working in finance or law. Well they have learned to think that way through their studies and from early exposure in the workplace. If they weren't strategic by nature, they wouldn't have made it into that field in the first place.

There's no point on high earners being smug about their hard work because many low earners work hard too. You could say you are smug because you just had the right thought paths in your brain to play the game, and were fluid enough in your decisions to take the right ladders and avoid the snakes.

But I also agree with posters that say growing up in hardship can make you successful or a high earner - if you spent your childhood having to be inventive and avoid obstacles then you are more likely to choose a career path where those skills are relevant.

I’d also add that there’s a distinction between hard work and risk. People who earn higher salaries have taken risks. Changing roles, asking for more. Eventually it pays off. Also higher paid roles means either a rare skill or more responsibility for managing people below you not just doing ‘the work’ directly

There a difference between thinking that people whose jobs are essential and could have big impact (like care assistants) should be paid more - and in thinking that these jobs deserve a 100K salary. There’s also a distinction between the work environment and salary. Teachers and nurses for example earn a decent salary on paper but are overworked. If there was extra money it’d be better spent reducing the workload rather than paying more.

Also at what point is a salary decent? 30K? 40K? What point is ‘high’?

Another person has said their take home pay if £6.5k doesn’t put them in ‘rich’ territory. I understand their point that they might not have loads left at the end of the month, but they are in the top 7% of the country.

I do have plenty left at the end of the month, it goes in to savings. But that still doesn’t make me rich. We live very comfortably but we are not rich. If we were rich, we could afford private schooling for our child. We can’t.

Rich is where money is no object at all. Where you can think of what you want and go and do it. It is where you never have to think “can I afford that” When they say “tax the rich” they aren’t talking about me.

BoredZelda if we were rich, we could afford private schooling for our child. We can’t I don’t get this logic.

I earn in excess of £200k and dh is not far behind depending on the year. I have nothing gold plated . Dcs are at state schools. We're not into designer clothes. Our biggest luxury spending I'd say is on holidays and breaks away and nice meals out. The best thing it gives me is peace of mind. That if something breaks or if the kids need something unexpected like a new coat or whatever I don't need to worry about that I just get it.

@BoredZelda
Presumably you could afford to pay for private schooling if you really wanted to on that salary. It is about priorities surely.
You choose to save which is fine but you have the privilege of options because of your high salary. There is always going to be something you cant afford no matter how rich you are so that is no indicator of level of wealth anyway.

I don;'t think we higher earners on the thread are smug or lying about salaries. in fact for legal careers it is pretty easy to look up salaries for bigger firms as it is public knowledge. Same with senior doctors and head teachers - public pay scales etc. Also it can be proved by our lifestyles to an extent - you can look up my house and what it is worth. If I paid two lots of law school fees last summer that is £16k x 2. All pretty public stuff. The Land Registry is public too. I just looked up new neighbours down the road who seem to be a dentist and solicitor couple (that was all on linkedin - I was only being nosy as to who can afford the £1m houses on our roads around here).

There are good points made about risk above - you can be fired in a second eg I was not kept on in 1985 after I finished my law training contract - right out on my ear had to find another job quickly (which I did in just about the best firm in the country so that worked out fine but it might not have done.....) I can be sued at any point for every penny if my insurance did not click in - it is easy for insurers to void policies or get round paying and i am not a limited company (I have never had complaint or claim in nearly 30 years of working for myself but that could change any day). One loose word or complaint and an entire 40 year career could be over.

I was going to post on this because DH and I fall into this category and I am bored, but then I read the post by the MNer on AIBU who can't afford heating to make her porridge.🙁 I don't feel like posting now. Clearly we are wealthy.

Err… @Xenia you realise that getting fired at the drop of the hat can happen to anyone right?
Esp as there is now very little legal aid, companies seem to be happy to not always follow ‘the’ rules either.

@MareofBeasttown
I have been thinking the same. Compared to many on here I have a modest lifestyle but my goodness reading that thread has reminded me of how v poor we were as newlyweds 30 odd years ago! My heart goes out to that poster and all those struggling.
These days I feel I am v rich indeed in every way that matters as I can afford to feed everyone a good diet and heat and light my home . I have a secure roof over my head and can buy what I need without too much worry ( within reason of course).
That puts me ahead of huge swathes of the worlds population both home and abroad and I am determined to remember that from here on in.
A lot of us have lost all perspective on what is necessary for a decent life hence people on huge salaries insisting that they are not actually wealthy at all despite being in the top.few percent of the worlds earners. Crazy !

High income often comes with high autonomy over how to spend your time.

I can be sued at any point for every penny if my insurance did not click in - it is easy for insurers to void policies or get round paying and i am not a limited company (I have never had complaint or claim in nearly 30 years of working for myself but that could change any day). One loose word or complaint and an entire 40 year career could be over.
You play fast and loose. Why not a limited company?

@MareofBeasttown

I was going to post on this because DH and I fall into this category and I am bored, but then I read the post by the MNer on AIBU who can't afford heating to make her porridge.🙁 I don't feel like posting now. Clearly we are wealthy.

You mean the one who can’t afford milk for her porridge and the heating on (which confused me at first until I realised that it was oat porridge) ? Sad, any one of us could be in that position tomorrow one job loss or illness away.

But again - not the point of this thread.

Also @Xenia nice to see you around 😂😂

@TractorAndHeadphones I'm intrigued, what other kinds of porridge are there?

Yes it does. Two of my closest friends have the kind of high salaries you talk about.

They have more holidays, bigger mortgages (but not necessarily bigger houses), cars on finance, do stuff like expensive spa days off the cuff, always, always out for dinner, doing stuff at the weekend.

But, my close circle of friends who are high earners (4 out of 6) also have jobs which they don't switch off from, are stressful, long hours and they don't particularly enjoy. Each one of them will tell you work is 'shit/stressful/they hate it'

Rich is where money is no object at all. Where you can think of what you want and go and do it. It is where you never have to think “can I afford that”

Sorry but that is so stupid - by that logic nobody would qualify, because usually the richer you get, the longer and more expensive your list of "wants". Even multimillionaires probably wouldn't feel rich because they might want a 20 million pound house or 10 million pound yacht and have to think "can I afford that". It's like the crazy estate agents on Million Dollar Listing, they make hundreds of thousands of dollars with each house sale but it's never enough, because they want a bigger house or bigger car or a 3 million dollar college fund for their kid. The only people who would literally be able to buy anything they ever wanted are oil magnates, royals or billionaires.

I think richness should be measured by percentile relative to the rest of your country/the world, not some obscure feeling of "can I have everything I want?". If all I want is charity shop furniture and 1 meal out a fortnight, then I'm rich AF, but if I want another degree, a large mansion and a yard full of horses then suddenly I'm poor.

[quote Isabellabasil]@TractorAndHeadphones I'm intrigued, what other kinds of porridge are there? [/quote]
Rice porridge… I’m Asian 😂

Nobody around me likes oats so I only found out that oat porridge was a thing last year… when I saw a box labelled ‘porridge oats’

blushes in ignorance!

Wealth buys choice and security. Until it doesn’t. Think of the Great Depression or times of hyperinflation. Lifelong savings wiped out immediately.

Money and “stuff” does not give you security: you need to find that somewhere else in life. You can spend and save as much as you want and ultimately still lose it all. There needs to be more point to your existence.

@vickyp0llard

Rich is where money is no object at all. Where you can think of what you want and go and do it. It is where you never have to think “can I afford that”

Sorry but that is so stupid - by that logic nobody would qualify, because usually the richer you get, the longer and more expensive your list of "wants". Even multimillionaires probably wouldn't feel rich because they might want a 20 million pound house or 10 million pound yacht and have to think "can I afford that". It's like the crazy estate agents on Million Dollar Listing, they make hundreds of thousands of dollars with each house sale but it's never enough, because they want a bigger house or bigger car or a 3 million dollar college fund for their kid. The only people who would literally be able to buy anything they ever wanted are oil magnates, royals or billionaires.

I think richness should be measured by percentile relative to the rest of your country/the world, not some obscure feeling of "can I have everything I want?". If all I want is charity shop furniture and 1 meal out a fortnight, then I'm rich AF, but if I want another degree, a large mansion and a yard full of horses then suddenly I'm poor.

By a worldwide measure everyone on MN is rich! Yes, even the struggling ones on NMW. I grew up with constant electricity/power cuts and 10 people to 2 bed house. There was no such thing as being a fussy eater because there wasn’t much choice with food. Unless it made you physically sick you ate it or starved. I still remember meat being a rare treat and my grandmother carefully counting out pieces to make sure everyone got one as allocated.

But in the U.K. people don’t really see an own bedroom as a privilege. Even people on very low incomes say things like ‘my DC will only eat X Y and Z’. Meat isn’t a luxury.

This is just to illustrate why poverty is subjective and a race to the bottom helps nobody. Of course people choosing to live in big houses and moaning about being poor are ridiculous but at the same time the aim is to drag people up! Dragging high earners down isn’t going to leave more for everyone because the problem is not them.

@ricepolo

Wealth buys choice and security. Until it doesn’t. Think of the Great Depression or times of hyperinflation. Lifelong savings wiped out immediately.

Money and “stuff” does not give you security: you need to find that somewhere else in life. You can spend and save as much as you want and ultimately still lose it all. There needs to be more point to your existence.

There is inherently no security in life. There are only probabilities . The only sure thing is death 😎

nope. that's DH
we have 7 kids. have a guess where all the money goes

@vickyp0llard you are rich if you have exceeding 1 million in investible assets (like stocks and bonds) excluding the value of your primary residence. So that excludes granny in her £3 million Golders Green house that she bought for very little in 1985 if she owns little of value other than her house, as she can't easily downsize without buying another house. There are 372k such individuals living in London in 2018, probably more by now. Everyone else is middle class (this is a very large group and there would be many different lifestyles- but the key is disposable income- whether its for a daily caffe nero coffee or private school or ballet or a holiday in Cornwall). You are poor if you need to rely on state support to meet your daily needs, if you can't afford to save for a pension (despite not having expensive outgoings).

I did read that thread about the lady who can't afford to heat her porridge and it is heartbreaking. But it doesn't mean that I am rich just because I have the heating on and I can pay my mortgage from my income. It just means that I am fortunate to be middle income. And it means that I have the obligation to donate food items when I can and not vote Tory at the voting booth because I should remember those less fortunate than myself. But that doesn't make me rich.

oh and we don't buy gold-plated anything.
don't be daft.
it's pure gold or nuffink!

That's where I feel the privilege the most. When we have a problem we can throw money at it.

To me, that, more than anything is the key to feeling that you are financially fortunate.

I'm not a high earner and never was. Just a teacher, married to another teacher, who both saved hard. Now widowed and retired. But my house is paid for, and all the savings for both our retirements, have ended up being just for one of me.

I feel financially fortunate. I still remember vividly, when a car needing repair was a disaster. Going round the supermarket with a calculator to feed my family for a week in £27. When basically even the slightest problem or mishap that cost money, was a massive worry.

But now I don't need to mentally tot up what my shopping costs. My car needing a repair is an annoyance and an inconvenience, but not a money problem. I've offered family members help with counselling and private SALT when they've got problems.

It makes a huge difference to know that problems can be made hills rather than mountains, because the money's available.

My DH and I are on the same income and have a take home together of around 10k per month.
20 years ago at law school I couldn't afford to feed myself and had to choose to starve so that our son would eat. I barely managed the rent.
It's swings and roundabouts.
As noted above, people who choose careers such as mine or my partners are making a choice to take a punt and aim for a career which will pay well.
I do not work any harder than our office cleaner, in fact categorically not. I do though have a tonne more responsibility and that I believe is what I am paid for. No more no less.