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AIBU?

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Original poster

Urgent help needed, Permitted Occupier

116 replies

SerendipitousEmma · 02/11/2021 10:40

Firstly, sorry to post in this topic but I need urgent help.

I started a relationship with someone in May this year. I had to leave the house I was living in, he was separated but still living at home so we rented a house together. I was not able to be on the tenancy due to credit/referencing issues, but I am a permitted occupier on the contract. The tenancy is in his name, but everything in the house is mine.

On Friday night he told me he was pulling the plug. He had given notice on the house and I had to go. He has gone back home and the house is being marketed. We have been here less than 4 weeks! Everything in the house is mine. I have nowhere to go. It would take ages to move all my furniture etc out even if I did have somewhere to go.

There have been multiple red flags over the months, more so since we moved in but that is another thread.

I know I was stupid to move in with him so quickly but I had to leave my previous address, so please don't judge me on that. I never ever saw this coming. I feel utterly shell shocked and at a loss.The landlord appears to be siding with him for some reason and won't even consider me taking on the tenancy.

It may also be pertinent to say that I do have bills here that are in my name and I am on the electoral role, if that makes any difference whatsover.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated Sad

OP posts:
Platax · 02/11/2021 11:41

Look urgently into flat share and lodging arrangements.

Mummyoflittledragon · 02/11/2021 12:10

I’m a ll. Permitted occupiers have the same rights as tenants. I would stay put if I were you. The ll isn’t allowed to ask you for rent but they cannot tell you to leave. Your ex will have to continue paying the rent as they haven’t left the property vacant and the ll will have to start eviction procedures. www.lettingaproperty.com/landlord/blog/permitted-occupier/#can-a-permitted-occupier-stay-if-the-tenant-leaves

You’ve got months to find something suitable.

mumwon · 02/11/2021 12:10

if you have the money op I think going to a solicitor that specializes in housing would be a good start ...

TakeYourFinalPosition · 02/11/2021 12:11

Whereabouts in the U.K. are you, OP? That makes a difference to the relevant laws.

Do you know what’s happened to his tenancy? Has he paid to end it early? Surrendered it, with the landlords permission?

Original poster
SerendipitousEmma · 02/11/2021 12:14

@Mummyoflittledragon

I’m a ll. Permitted occupiers have the same rights as tenants. I would stay put if I were you. The ll isn’t allowed to ask you for rent but they cannot tell you to leave. Your ex will have to continue paying the rent as they haven’t left the property vacant and the ll will have to start eviction procedures. www.lettingaproperty.com/landlord/blog/permitted-occupier/#can-a-permitted-occupier-stay-if-the-tenant-leaves

You’ve got months to find something suitable.

This is amazing! And if I can prove I can pay the rent then maybe the LL will change his mind.
OP posts:
chesirecat99 · 02/11/2021 12:18

Permitted occupiers don't have any legal rights Sad, unlike tenants. Conversely, if you don't move out, your ex will be liable for the rent whether he lives there or not.

You need to get some legal advice, if 6 months rent has been paid upfront, as you think, that might change the legal position. I believe that if you pay rent to the landlord, then that forms a contract even if there isn't a written contract. Of course, he might not accept any rent from you.

As well as trying to get through to Shelter, google to look for any free housing legal advice clinics near you.

It's also worth contacting the council housing department and telling them that you are being made homeless. They may have a private housing officer who can help negotiate with the landlord. They also may have schemes to help people with getting homes in the private sector if they are being made homeless. They can sometimes act as a guarantor to prevent the person being evicted rather than paying for b and b emergency accommodation.

Original poster
SerendipitousEmma · 02/11/2021 12:19

@TakeYourFinalPosition

I am in Oxfordshire. I have no idea what has happened. My ex told me on Friday night he had given notice and we (I) had a week to get out. It is on Rightmove already with an available date of 22nd November. But he had signed up for a year with a 6 month break clause so I don't know why the landlord is being so agreeable.

He did allegedly take a dividend from his company to settle 40k of car finance last week but the car is still showing as having outstanding finance on it. So I think potentially he paid his way out of the tenancy?

OP posts:
Original poster
SerendipitousEmma · 02/11/2021 12:21

It's all so confusing. I can't get through to Shelter.

I literally feel like the rug has been pulled out from underneath me. The landlord won't even let me gain access to the garage (ex took all the keys from me).

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 02/11/2021 12:21

If you do battle with the landlord it could make your tenant references worse. Doesnt seem a wise path to go down under the circumstances. Do you mean the landlord is putting the house up for sale or asking for new tenants. I think advice from shelter would be your best bet.

Original poster
SerendipitousEmma · 02/11/2021 12:25

No, not up for sale, it's marketed for new tenants.

I really don't want to battle with him, it's bad enough already. But I did hope for some empathy but all I got was condescension and underlying nastiness.

OP posts:
Original poster
SerendipitousEmma · 02/11/2021 12:26

And bearing in mind that my tenant references couldn't be any worse, I don't think I have much to lose!!

OP posts:
VanCleefArpels · 02/11/2021 12:37

You do not have a right to stay in the property and the landlord does not have to get an order to evict you.

Rather than dwelling on what has happened you should start making a practical plan. Look for a room in a shared house and put your belongings in storage. This will give you some breathing space.

LakieLady · 02/11/2021 12:39

Holy shit, OP, what a bastard he is. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

If you can't get through to Shelter, ring the local council and ask to speak to a homelessness officer/adviser. They may be able to help you find somewhere, eg many councils will lend deposit/rent in advance. CAB and similar advice agencies also have housing advisers.

In general, the advice to stay put for now is good though. I worked in homelessness prevention for years, and the only scenario I can think of where an occupier is best to leave is in cases of DV or similar.

I'd also suggest trying to pay the landlord, although I suspect he may be reluctant to accept rent from you.

I hope you manage to get some specialist advice soon.

chesirecat99 · 02/11/2021 12:39

That link confirms what I said, @SerendipitousEmma and @Mummyoflittledragon.

The permitted occupier has no legal rights. If the tenant moves out and the permitted occupier refuses to leave, the tenant is still liable for the rent. If the landlord accepts rent from the permitted occupier, then that may be considered to form a new tenancy and give the permitted occupier the same legal rights as a tenant.

There is a problem though if the tenant refuses to pay the rent and the landlord does not accept rent from the permitted occupier. I believe it is much quicker to get a possession order and evict a permitted occupier than a tenant, days rather than months. I'll see if I can find a link.

chesirecat99 · 02/11/2021 12:41

Here:

www.property118.com/tenants-daughter-comes-age-ast/

"If, as an example, the tenant had gotten into arrears and agreed to leave the property on a certain date (obviously fully documented with a surrender of tenancy), left but in effect gave the occupier permission to stay on, firstly you have not received vacant possession of the property and the tenant is still liable for rent and secondly the eviction process is very quick and covered under the criminal justice and public order act. You would have to make an emergency application to the courts for an interim possession order. If from 24 hours once the order is served the tenant has not left the property the police have the right to access the property and remove the occupier (if it reached this point i would advise taking a locksmith with you as the police aren’t renowned for being gentle when it comes to gaining access). A final hearing would follow 7 days from that date and then a final possession order if the tenant cannot present a valid defence."

Original poster
SerendipitousEmma · 02/11/2021 12:43

@LakieLady

Holy shit, OP, what a bastard he is. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

If you can't get through to Shelter, ring the local council and ask to speak to a homelessness officer/adviser. They may be able to help you find somewhere, eg many councils will lend deposit/rent in advance. CAB and similar advice agencies also have housing advisers.

In general, the advice to stay put for now is good though. I worked in homelessness prevention for years, and the only scenario I can think of where an occupier is best to leave is in cases of DV or similar.

I'd also suggest trying to pay the landlord, although I suspect he may be reluctant to accept rent from you.

I hope you manage to get some specialist advice soon.

He really is a bastard. I never saw this coming. I feel sick at what he's done/doing to me.
OP posts:
Original poster
SerendipitousEmma · 02/11/2021 12:45

@chesirecat99 Sad

OP posts:
vivainsomnia · 02/11/2021 12:54

It's strange situation. If he has paid for the whole 6 months, surely OP can remain there. It would be up to him to remove OP.

If he hasn't, it's very odd that the landlord has agreed to a surrender.

Unless he has indeed paid for 6 months and the landlord is trying their luck getting someone else to pay again!

Original poster
SerendipitousEmma · 02/11/2021 13:01

@vivainsomnia

It's strange situation. If he has paid for the whole 6 months, surely OP can remain there. It would be up to him to remove OP.

If he hasn't, it's very odd that the landlord has agreed to a surrender.

Unless he has indeed paid for 6 months and the landlord is trying their luck getting someone else to pay again!

It's utterly bizarre! The landlord won't give me any information at all. I did question the 6 month break clause in the contract and that surely ex was liable. He said only if he agreed to end the tenancy or was able to let it again.

I'm so bloody confused.

OP posts:
Original poster
SerendipitousEmma · 02/11/2021 13:03

And underpinning all of this that I just don't understand why he's done this to me.

OP posts:
Merrilee · 02/11/2021 13:04

He's gone back home? So he was married?

SeasonFinale · 02/11/2021 13:06

Yes a landlord can release an tenant from a tenancy agreement. The tenant will usually have to pay the costs of remarkerting and rent until the property is rent within the 6 months.

TakeYourFinalPosition · 02/11/2021 13:07

*It's strange situation. If he has paid for the whole 6 months, surely OP can remain there. It would be up to him to remove OP.

If he hasn't, it's very odd that the landlord has agreed to a surrender.*

I'd imagine it's in the middle - a negotiated surrender. We've dealt with a few cases in the law clinic recently... Essentially I'd bet that he's agreed to pay 3 months for example; as a lump sum in exchange for surrendering the contract... which leaves the landlord free to relet immediately; and essentially get double the rent.

The rental market is strong in most places, so most landlords would back themselves to fill the property again easily; and it avoids the risk of having a couple who have split in the property...

To be fair; it can work really well for the landlord and tenant - but it is a difficult situation if someone who lives there isn't a tenant. OP would have had to be party to the agreement if she was, but as a permitted occupier, it's more complex.

@SerendipitousEmma Do you have a copy of the contract that was signed? Was there a clause, or clauses, specifically relating to you as the permitted occupier?

The advice to contact your local council isn't bad - to put you on their radar and find out next steps. You'll probably be best to stay where you are for now, but it may well turn out that you won't have the same months-long wait for court as you would if you were a tenant... as others have said, the eviction process may be much faster. Here, you'd be offered accommodation with the Salvation Army as a first step if you're an adult without dependants; and then the council will work with you to find alternative emergency accommodation, if you qualify.

I'm so sorry this has happened. If you have the relevant clauses from the contract, that'd be really useful to see.

Have you had any contact from your estate agent or landlord?

Original poster
SerendipitousEmma · 02/11/2021 13:09

Yes but told me he was separated. Lived with me at my previous house for a while and then here with me for the last month. He had moved out for all intents and purposes.

OP posts:
Original poster
SerendipitousEmma · 02/11/2021 13:13

@TakeYourFinalPosition That's really helpful thank you. I have seen the contract, I have a copy of the contract and I am named as a permitted occupier in the property. I think I will need to find specialist help.

I saw the landlord this morning and he was condescending, verging on nasty towards me about the situation, telling me I need to get out soon. Implying by the end of the week I think.

It's not a cheap house, the rent is £4000 per month so I don't know if this makes it somewhat harder to let moving forwards.

OP posts: