"I'm Irish American"

[MacMahon]

I've noticed that to many Americans their Irish, Scots, Italian etc. roots are a big part of their current identity. As a nation of immigrants in a New World I can see why this link to earlier generations is interesting and important.

But it's also something I find confusing.

I live in Yorkshire. I'm English. I have Irish ancestors on both side (great grandparents and great x2 grandparents). If I was in America this would quite possibly be a big deal. I'd be an Irish American and identify with the struggles and persecution that my people suffered at the hands of the English. But I wasn't born in America, I was born in Leeds, and my Irish ancestry play zero role in my identity.

I'm on an ancestry group and Americans are getting that DNA test done and finding out that, contrary to family lore that they are Cherokee or Mexican or Italian Americans, they're actually pretty much 'just' 100% British.

It makes me wonder how authentic this celebrating or identifying with their Irish/First Nations/Italian roots is, and how much is just (mistaken) tribalism and division.

I am not sure why Brits get so upset over this. If an American has Irish great-grandparents and says they are American Irish, that's fine. I think you don't hear so much abour people identifying as "English-Americans" as much because it tends to be the default, and because often it goes much further back. That said I do know Americans who are very interested in their English heritage.

I am Irish, was born there but didn't grow up there (nor did I grow up in the UK). Some people on this thread seem to think you can only be the nationality of the country you were born in. This is not the case at all, it's not always that simple. My kids were born in the UK and they are British and Irish.

Also, most people are quite interested in their ancestors, hence the popularity of "Who do you think you are?". Americans will have ancestors who emigrated, I think I would find that interesting if I were them and want to know where they came from. More interesting than centuries of farm labourers which I assume to be the case for my ancestry!

Woah, American Indian?! I think that’s an offensive term these days (any day, actually) and perpetuates the myth that Columbus had a clue about his whereabouts. God knows why he’s so celebrated in America.

I did chuckle on meeting some people in Kentucky who told me they were 9th generation Irish ie not at all. Given the relative newness of the country and it being such a melting pot, I think people like to be able to hang their hat on something and it’s important to them, so let them crack on. I’m not including African American in that, that’s a whole different issue.

@ManifestingWisdom

For decades now though any anti-Irishness displays only a very lower middle class hyacinth bouquet mindset. I never worried about anti-Irishness in the UK, as the only people who ever said anything to me were not in positions of power above me with any control over my life. This is how it is now. Ireland is a modern European country with adequate/good health care and a well educated population. It's so dated to look down on the Irish. Anybody who reveals how out of date they are, I just pitied them, and that was over 15 years ago as although I spent 13 years in London, I've been back 15 years now.

Yes but when you’re talking about identifying as Irish due to a reasonably distant relative, once that stops, for example due to anti-Irish prejudice, it’s less likely to reappear in later generations I think. It’s the kind of thing that is passed down.

@newrubylane

It's worth noting that a DNA test can't identify a genetic 'ethnicity'. It can only tell you which modern populations your genetic make up is most similar to. It doesn't necessarily mean you're literally from there. They call it an 'ethnicity estimate'. Taking into account the way that your DNA can come in different proportions from each grandparent (i.e. not necessarily 25% from each) as well, you could very easily have a set of Irish great-grandparents and not obviously appear genetically 'Irish'.

Yes, my brother did one and it came back that he was 13% Irish. The rest was Scottish, Welsh and Irish with him being 26% Scottish although we did know that my Dad's mum was Scottish.

I just realised that I forgot that when I described myself as plain old Irish!

So he paid 99 euro to learn that he was 96% from the uk. and 4% swedish with I think everybody gets. 99 euro well spent! The excitement of these results!

@LedTasso

I am not sure why Brits get so upset over this. If an American has Irish great-grandparents and says they are American Irish, that's fine. I think you don't hear so much abour people identifying as "English-Americans" as much because it tends to be the default, and because often it goes much further back. That said I do know Americans who are very interested in their English heritage.

I am Irish, was born there but didn't grow up there (nor did I grow up in the UK). Some people on this thread seem to think you can only be the nationality of the country you were born in. This is not the case at all, it's not always that simple. My kids were born in the UK and they are British and Irish.

Also, most people are quite interested in their ancestors, hence the popularity of "Who do you think you are?". Americans will have ancestors who emigrated, I think I would find that interesting if I were them and want to know where they came from. More interesting than centuries of farm labourers which I assume to be the case for my ancestry!

I don’t think it’s that we get upset, more just find it a weird quirk, as I’m sure a lot of other Europeans do too.

@ ManifestingWisdom - For decades now though any anti-Irishness displays only a very lower middle class hyacinth bouquet mindset. I never worried about anti-Irishness in the UK, as the only people who ever said anything to me were not in positions of power above me with any control over my life. This is how it is now. Ireland is a modern European country with adequate/good health care and a well educated population. It's so dated to look down on the Irish. Anybody who reveals how out of date they are, I just pitied them, and that was over 15 years ago as although I spent 13 years in London, I've been back 15 years now.

You just have to look at the comments on the recent past by various British politicians about Ireland and the Irish to see that is not the case at all. I don't know have you seen the comments by the British diplomat who resigned over being asked to lie to Americans about the impacts of brexit? One UK minister, when told about negative impacts on Irish businesses, said it was only a bunch of farmers with turnips in the back of the truck. Priti Patel's suggestion that you starve the Irish into submission was another beauty.

I think as well that it depends on what you call anti-Irish displays. In the 80's it was very overt and, while the aggressive behaviour was mainly from more "lower-case" people, there was plenty from all "classes". There is still plenty of anti-Irish attitudes prevalent amongst all classes in the UK. It's just disguised as banter or slagging in the more affluent and educated.

I was working in England during the times of the Harrods bomb, and Hyde Park bomb. And we used Gatwick to fly, Irish and Israeli flights went from the same area. In Heathrow, passengers to Ireland were herded into a prefab.
Ant and Decs family tree thing was great.

Obviously I don't know what my experience would have been in the USA. Although I'm Irish my surname is English. And when I was in the USA the people I spoke to didn't seem to register that I was Irish not English.

And right there you have the beauty of the USA - you can be anyone or anything you want to be. It's the crux of the whole 'I'm an Irish/Italian/whatever-American' - it's people choosing what they want to be and, in come cases, reinventing themselves.

@Coffeetree thanks for that account. Yes, that's whyJoe Biden's Irish-ness seems disingenuous. It's just a vote-winner. He has no doubt played down any connection when he's with the Hoyts and the Cabots and the Aldens. I think they've all had some Irish ancestry and the more self-aware ones kept quiet about it.

In Ireland lasagne tends to be served with coleslaw, we love coleslaw.

@zafferana

Obviously I don't know what my experience would have been in the USA. Although I'm Irish my surname is English. And when I was in the USA the people I spoke to didn't seem to register that I was Irish not English.

And right there you have the beauty of the USA - you can be anyone or anything you want to be. It's the crux of the whole 'I'm an Irish/Italian/whatever-American' - it's people choosing what they want to be and, in come cases, reinventing themselves.

So true!

Random waiters projected British on to me, but yes, I was 22 and it would have been such a clean slate for me.

Garlic Bread (which I love btw) but makes most Italians shudder with the thought of eating all that garlic

Garlic bread isn’t popular in Italy 😮
I’m not shocked specifically about it being Italy, but who doesn’t love garlic!!

@ManifestingWisdom

For decades now though any anti-Irishness displays only a very lower middle class hyacinth bouquet mindset. I never worried about anti-Irishness in the UK, as the only people who ever said anything to me were not in positions of power above me with any control over my life. This is how it is now. Ireland is a modern European country with adequate/good health care and a well educated population. It's so dated to look down on the Irish. Anybody who reveals how out of date they are, I just pitied them, and that was over 15 years ago as although I spent 13 years in London, I've been back 15 years now.

Alas, this wasn’t my experience (and I only left England in 2019, after 26 years). The high tables of Oxford were not immune, and those were people whose prejudices did make a difference to my career and opportunities. I agree, though, that in general it’s statistically overwhelmingly a white, lower-middle-class thing, though I’ve had a bit of upper-middle-class vocal incredulity that I wasn’t keeping pigs in the kitchen while clutching my rosary and having ten children and saying ‘Be the hokey!’ I’ve probably had more older men say things to me than women of any age, and it seldom happened in London, much more when I lived elsewhere in England.

@Mifacagare

Not American Irish but I've met a fair few of 3rd or 4th generation 'Italian Americans' tourists here in Italy. None of them can speak the language or if they do they only know a handful of Americanised dialect words that no one uses. I'm British, fluent in Italian and lived in Italy (with an Italian) for over 20 years. I've had a few differences in opinion over their traditional 'Italian' food, apparently which I don't qualify to know as I have 'zero Italian blood'! Most of the food does not exist here, such as Pasta with Chicken, Spaghetti with Meatballs or Garlic Bread (which I love btw) but makes most Italians shudder with the thought of eating all that garlic or the biggest no-no pasta with chicken!!

what about seafood linguine? is that authentic or Italian American? I find seafood and pasta an unappealing mix but of course that means nothing as I'm neither Italian nor American. Just curious!

No problem with it until they start pontificating on politics when they have no idea and the 1950s 'Quiet Man' view of Ireland.
We do still dance at the cross and cut turf though and kill a pig once a year.
They have a derogatory name as 'plastic paddies' in some quarters here.

@Naunet

The thing that’s always confused me most about Americans, is why they suddenly decided that Spainish people aren’t white.

My dad is Spanish, so over there I’m suddenly mixed race 🙄

In US Census you'd be White of hispanic origin -- there is a separate category for this. Strong regional representation in New Mexico, iirc. I don't know how often that's described as 'mixed race'.

@WeAreTheHeroes

Did anyone see the Jeremy Irons episode of Who Do You Think You Are? He was desperate to be Irish and convinced that was his background. Turned out he wasn't at all. I'm from the NW. So many people have Irish connections, but don't call themselves Irish.

Oh, I watched that. I can't remember where his 'roots' actually turned out to be, but he started wittering on about how he'd always 'felt a connection' which now 'made sense'. Ruined The Lion King for me, that episode did.

@Emilyontmoor

Kingsley Read the UCL link for the actual science.

Ancestry hang on to your DNA unless you expressly ask them to destroy it. Why do you think that might be? They have no reason to hang on to it unless they regard it as having value beyond the immediate results of their analysis?

These are businesses and are valued by the market for the DNA records they hold.

Because it's linked to your ancestry account? Loads of people do an AncestryDNA test to find distant relatives and help build their tree. The ethnicity estimates are interesting, but if you've already researched many of your ancestors will usually confirm what you already know.

In order to match you with new people who test, of course they have to retain your DNA. Or they wouldn't be able to offer any matches at all, tell you how many centimorgans you share and on which genes.

This idea that the only reason Ancestry do DNA Is to tell people what percentage Irish they are is so wrong.

I'm Irish and spent a year in Boston. I think the Irish American identity gives people access to a community that may not exist otherwise. Irish dancing, GAA first communions etc. My point is I think it's unfair to say it's all rooted in the past and a lot of it is they enjoy the Irish traits in the present.I never listen to Irish music here and I got involved in many a trad session in southie.
The Italian community was the same.
Ironically while there a customer started the usual do you know... And I did!

So he paid 99 euro to learn that he was 96% from the uk.

You're Irish and you've just referred to Ireland as being part of the UK?

@Leavisite Oh yes, I guess I did get those pigs in the kitchen comments but instead of feeling put down I thought ''well, well, look who you are down there'' but just dealt with it with a quip.
I guess I relegated them. Rightly or wrongly my family (delusional) raised me to believe we had class, ha ha. We had to do everything properly. Whatever my mother decided was the proper respectable way of doing things. So I went to London with a core belief based on my mother's conditioning that I was a cut above buttermilk whether I was or I wasn't. It may have been delusional but it served me well.

I never had the core belief that I could be myself! but I did feel like I was automatically socially above anybody who looked down on the Irish.

One UK minister, when told about negative impacts on Irish businesses, said it was only a bunch of farmers with turnips in the back of the truck. Priti Patel's suggestion that you starve the Irish into submission was another beauty.

This, and the fact that the Leave campaign got away with an explicit decision not to mention the impact on Northern Ireland because it was too difficult, and most of the voters (apart from the ones in Ireland) were completely ignorant and careless of the issues. All kudos to Biden that he actually does care about the Good Friday Agreement which a lot of English politicians clearly do not. Gove has been explicit in his belief that the U.K. should not have “capitulated” to the IRA in negotiating the GFA and would have defeated them militarily (never mind the human cost). People may remember the London bombings but they seem to have forgotten what an amazing feat it was on the part of all the parties to have reached a negotiated agreement that stopped the bloodshed, and at senior government level be prepared to put that at risk.

@DirectionToPerfection

So he paid 99 euro to learn that he was 96% from the uk.

You're Irish and you've just referred to Ireland as being part of the UK?

No. I mean his dna was presented to him as being 99% from the uk and ireland. Geez!

@MilesJuppIsMyBitch and @WeAreTheHeroes, John Hurt’s episode of ‘Who Do You Think You Are?’ was exactly the same — he was convinced he had Irish heritage, and was visibly upset that he hadn’t.

Jeremy Irons is a bit irritating on the whole thing — he means well, and brings some welcome funding to local trad music festivals, but he plays fiddle incredibly badly (we’re talking ‘five year old after a term of Suzuki lessons’ bad)and bobs up and just starts sawing away with no invitation in the middle of a seisiún of world-class musicians.