"I'm Irish American"

[MacMahon]

I've noticed that to many Americans their Irish, Scots, Italian etc. roots are a big part of their current identity. As a nation of immigrants in a New World I can see why this link to earlier generations is interesting and important.

But it's also something I find confusing.

I live in Yorkshire. I'm English. I have Irish ancestors on both side (great grandparents and great x2 grandparents). If I was in America this would quite possibly be a big deal. I'd be an Irish American and identify with the struggles and persecution that my people suffered at the hands of the English. But I wasn't born in America, I was born in Leeds, and my Irish ancestry play zero role in my identity.

I'm on an ancestry group and Americans are getting that DNA test done and finding out that, contrary to family lore that they are Cherokee or Mexican or Italian Americans, they're actually pretty much 'just' 100% British.

It makes me wonder how authentic this celebrating or identifying with their Irish/First Nations/Italian roots is, and how much is just (mistaken) tribalism and division.

Nothing wrong with saying I’m Italian American or Irish American .

We’ve been to Arthur Avenue In the Bronx a few years back and the south Italian identity and heritage is just so strong , the shops, food, even how some dressed, it’s so Fascinating , everyone has a story about their grand/great parents and how they got here , They are very proud of their Ancestry.

And you'd be amazed how many white Americans claim they're 1% Cherokee or something

So true. There is an excellent American "Who Do You Think You Are" style programme Called "Finding Your Roots". So often they have people coming on saying they definitely have native Americans in their past and the DNA shows nothing of the sort. And it always comes as a huge shock to many of the African-American participants that they have some European DNA.

DNA is widely used by African-Americans too as it can often narrow their origins to a particular location in West Africa.

Yes it does no harm in Scotland to our tourist trade so crack on.

I have Irish ancestry and lived as a child in an area in UK where there was a big Irish diaspora. I would never say I was anything Irish. However culturally I can recognise that there were still some connections; Catholic education, Irish songs sang to me as a child, various attitudes that shaped behaviour in my family. But there is obviously something about the American cultural landscape that makes them want to cling on to this and you could probably write an essay about that. There is also that thing where the diaspora becomes more wedded to cultural identifiers than the people living in the place they came from. The original culture moves on but the diaspora does not.

I am Irish and find it culturally different yes. America is the melting pot so they feel the need to claim some ethnicity.

I get annoyed with Americans in their sitcoms the way their stereotypes persist (for all nations) ''Irish flu'' is a hangover. British having bad teeth, French people being hairy, Italians not showering. It's all so out of date but these ''jokes'' crop up in their sitcoms.

In Ireland, you're Irish if you have an Irish accent, even if your parents are from China, Nigeria, Wolverhampton..............

That's the measure here I think. Grew up here? PPs number? then tick.

Great grandparents on your mother's side from a place the family folklore is so much distance from the pronunciation has been corrupted, no, that is American!!

@Naunet - The thing that’s always confused me most about Americans, is why they suddenly decided that Spainish people aren’t white.

No they haven't decided Spanish people aren't white. Hispanic is not the same as Spanish.

The rush to discover irish ancestry is big in Ireland, we celebrate Obamas Irish ancestry and have a motorway service station named after him.
Guets on the main chat show, Hollywood stars or UK television stars alike, are questioned about their heritage.
And the Rose of Tralee festival reveals Irish lovely girls from Australia, NZ, Canada, and assorted random old British colonies where Irish civil servants worked.

!!!!!!!!!

I’m Welsh and this happened to DM and I in New York. A man asked where were from and when we said Wales he told us his Great Great Grandfather was from Caernarfon (which he struggled to pronounce properly).

I've got Irish parents who came here in their 20s. I went to catholic schools (most of the kids were also 2nd gen immigrants) & I did irish dancing, we have Gaelic names, did hurling, tried unsuccessfully to learn Gaelic!, etc. I was brought up within Irish culture so feel a lot more Irish then English. But I have a big family who are all still in Ireland & we seen very regularly, my dad also moved back some years ago.

Maybe it's an immigrant thing as I didn't actually become friends with anyone who wasn't a 2nd immigrant until uni. It's not intentional but my closest friends & DH are all 2nd gen immigrants & the people I bond with at work & school are 1st or 2nd gen.

I do roll my eyes a bit at Americans who tell me they are Irish because their great grandfather was but maybe there hypocritical. My mum was once asked if she knew X by someone she met on holiday, she did! 😆

Did he ask if you might be related, @BiscoffAddict? 😁

lol at ''whisky or egg?''' Or tape!?

@junebirthdaygirl

I am lrish. My dsis lives in the States and has 3 dc. They are very involved in the lrish Community..play lrish sport etc while being totally American through the education system, friends etc. But they absolutely love lreland and feel so connected when they come on visits. They are fascinated by the family history , love talking to elderly relatives and totally identify as lrish. I have no idea what will happen as the next generation comes along but l would have a big problem with anyone denying they are lrish. Also due to our lrish history we relied on our people who had emigrated to the US to help us in our fight for freedom over the centuries so l think it was in our best interests to encourage people to hang on to their lrishness as long as possible. We are after all a tiny island hanging off Europe so having our diaspora throughout the world is a support for us on the lnternational stage. It can get annoying if their ancestors are way back but the lrish are inclined to stick together in the US so there is a strong identity.

But that's totally different to what the OP means, surely? Your sister is Irish presumably and was brought up and lived in Ireland. I've heard Americans describe themselves as 'Irish' when they mean they have Irish ancestors of 3 or 4 generations ago and have never even been to Ireland on holiday.

My grandparents were Irish but my mum and her siblings were born and raised in England. I consider to myself to be English, with Irish heritage if I ever think about it at all and I wouldn't presume to be an expert on Ireland or Irish or lay any sort of claim to being so.

@Lottapianos

'Americans visiting Skibbereen to research their family connections are always given the warmest of welcomes.'

Oh sure, but are they accepted as truly 'Irish' or just indulged for the sake of politeness?

Certainly not viewed as Irish in the sense of people with a living connection to the place (in the way that, say, the children of parents living abroad would be viewed as Irish when they visit), or integrated like Americans of any descent who come and live in Ireland.

I used to be the departmental liaison for visiting students, and we always got a lot of Americans studying for a semester because they had Irish ancestry, and who were puzzled and upset when Irish students didn’t view them as Irish, but just as Americans, when they said their great-granny had left Tubbercurry in the mid-19thc.

The vast majority had never left the US before and simply weren’t used to being foreigners in another country, or dealing with people’s negative conceptions of America, anyway. When there were protests about the Bush/Blair invasion of Iraq, I had endless numbers of American visiting students showing up in my office terribly upset, although no one was being personally unpleasant to them about it — they had just never come up against the idea that not everyone approved of US foreign policy.

I think for many it was the psychological equivalent of losing your virginity.

[quote OchonAgusOchonOh]**@Naunet* - The thing that’s always confused me most about Americans, is why they suddenly decided that Spainish people aren’t white.*

No they haven't decided Spanish people aren't white. Hispanic is not the same as Spanish.[/quote]
Well, they have, I’ve been told it many times, there’s YouTube videos and articles on the topic everywhere. Did you not see some years back that Antonio Banderas was nominated for an Oscar as a “person of colour”?! He’s Spanish for fuck sake.

one of the reasons people of Irish descent living in the UK don’t often flag themselves as ‘Irish’ the way Americans of Irish descent do is that there remains significant levels of anti-Irish prejudice towards Irish people.

Good point. My dad used to fly between Dublin & London a lot. So much ignorance around the Troubles too in general.

I think my personal identity is stronger than my national identity so after 13 years in the UK, losing my Irish accent (yes I did, I have a good ear, thinks that's why. Musical, learnt to speak Spanish without an accent) I just thought, well this is where I am now, I'll assimilate. Especially after having DC and wanting them to speak well so I correct their English and made them repeat words with the T pronounced but obviously I mirrored it to them with an English t not an Irish T.

I did end up back in Ireland but I don't think there's anything wrong with a conscious decision to assimilate. I got my identity through being me.

@Naunet - oh, I see what you mean. I thought you meant officially in terms of ethnicity.

@DancingQueen85

It is interesting that there seems to be little interest in those with English ancestry which must be just as prevalent as Irish or Scottish. England is also a country with amazing scenery and history so I'm not sure why people aren't proud of being connected to that

The English were the colonial power. It 100% makes sense that people wouldn't want to identify with that. So you didn't get English American communities building the folklore and traditions etc. in the same way.

I've done a fair bit of family history research in my time and have found all sorts going back centuries.

What I do find odd is that Americans become so invested in their great-great 1/16th's Irish ancestor rather than the other 15/16th's, made up of Italian, English, Hungarian, German, Spanish, French etc. They concentrate only on the Irish connection and ignore the rest.

OP You do know that Ancestry is engaged in a scam to get you to pay to give them your DNA so that they can sell it on for profit. The valuation of these DNA ancestry businesses is based on that business model. It is a scam because beyond a couple of generations the DNA ancestry thing is basically about as scientific as astrology so you are the one that is at fault in dismissing someone’s results as undermining their actual sense of identity. All DNA ancestry results tell you, unless they are corroborated by the historical records (and they in themselves are a huge industry in the US) is that you share DNA with people from that part of the world not that your ancestors actually lived there. Indeed your DNA actually undermines the whole concept of race since we all share a great deal more DNA than sets us apart.

www.ucl.ac.uk/biosciences/molecular-and-cultural-evolution-lab/debunking-genetic-astrology

There was also a good Infinite Monkey Cage that exposed the actual science if you want to understand it.

Gave me a bit of amusement when the results informed my racist relation he did not have Scandinavian ancestors as he always assumed but was supposedly part South Sea Islander but I was not under any illusions it actually had exposed their ancestry.

I am proud to have an Irish great grandparent who came here and made a life for themselves, and to be from Yorkshire. I stopped being proud to be British a while ago as the values in society parted from my own. Identity is very personal and I see no problem in respecting whatever identity people want to claim, aside from one that they got from a DNA ancestry scam…..

Really?

You don’t think African Americans should have that identity? Considering the issues that are still occurring today?

we always got a lot of Americans studying for a semester because they had Irish ancestry, and who were puzzled and upset when Irish students didn’t view them as Irish, but just as Americans,

This was my experience as a Scottish person mixing with young Americans in my first job out of Uni when I was sent to the US office for 3 weeks. Many were very keen to tell me they were Scottish too, because gggg granny Jeanie had emigrated in 1892. At first I would just laugh and tell them that it didn't make them Scottish, they were American, and they got very offended and huffy. Eventually I learned to smile and say "that's nice" and then change the subject.

@Parker231

DH is French Canadian and refers to himself as that. Signifies his background.

But I think French Canadian is different?

As for Americans identifying as Irish etc.... I think a lot of pp are lacking imagination.
So many people were forced to leave the country they came from. In the first few waves of immigration, there wasn't an overall American or Canadian culture or identity. As a matter of fact, there may have been next to nothing around. It's human nature to identify with people you perceive to be like you.

Of course they are going to cling to their cultural identity. And of course you'd instil it into your children. Put yourselves in their shoes. It then becomes part of your family story.

[quote OchonAgusOchonOh]**@lnsufficientFuns* - So many millions of Irish left Ireland in the potato famine that there was then a huge Irish influx in America in the 1840-50s.*

The term "potato famine" is generally considered to be inappropriate and offensive. The great famine did not occur because of the failure of the potato crop, although it was obviously a contributory factor. It occurred because of British policy in Ireland and their efforts to clear the tenants from the land. There was more than enough food produced in the country.[/quote]
Yes, I’m tired of saying that on here. It’s belittling, indicates a very poor grasp of the issues, and some people appear to intend ‘Potato Famine’ is a mildly comic way.

I'm on a few quilt Facebook groups and a few times have had to gently persuade people that their Irish relative living in Ireland probably doesn't want a quilt made up of shamrocks and leprechauns.

😁