"I'm Irish American"

[MacMahon]

I've noticed that to many Americans their Irish, Scots, Italian etc. roots are a big part of their current identity. As a nation of immigrants in a New World I can see why this link to earlier generations is interesting and important.

But it's also something I find confusing.

I live in Yorkshire. I'm English. I have Irish ancestors on both side (great grandparents and great x2 grandparents). If I was in America this would quite possibly be a big deal. I'd be an Irish American and identify with the struggles and persecution that my people suffered at the hands of the English. But I wasn't born in America, I was born in Leeds, and my Irish ancestry play zero role in my identity.

I'm on an ancestry group and Americans are getting that DNA test done and finding out that, contrary to family lore that they are Cherokee or Mexican or Italian Americans, they're actually pretty much 'just' 100% British.

It makes me wonder how authentic this celebrating or identifying with their Irish/First Nations/Italian roots is, and how much is just (mistaken) tribalism and division.

I say let them have it, it's sad when they talk about their history, like their 'old' buildings. If it makes them feel bette then let them craic on.

I have a friend in Boston who has one set of Irish and one set of Italian great grandparents. She makes a huge deal that she's Irish/italian American. My grandparents were Russian but I consider myself 100% British. I find it very weird.

Do they ever say I'm "American-English'? I've never heard that, but presumably alot of them will have English heritage?

I read somewhere that there are actually more Americans with German heritage than British heritage. If you classify surnames by likely country of origin, more are German than British.

@BurnedToast

Do they ever say I'm "American-English'? I've never heard that, but presumably alot of them will have English heritage?

Yeah, I’ve heard it loads, along with many other European countries (especially France, Italy and Spain).

@Lottapianos

'Americans visiting Skibbereen to research their family connections are always given the warmest of welcomes.'

Oh sure, but are they accepted as truly 'Irish' or just indulged for the sake of politeness?

A colleague told me that when they were students and the Americans would come over ‘looking for roots’ they would make up the most outrageous nonsense (and get free drinks all night). The Americans would go home with tales of daring dos by their ‘ancestors’ and ‘first hand eyewitness accounts’ of leprechauns.

I can’t help but think these companies doing the dna tests are just onto a money spinner!

This is actually something I know quite a bit about.

DNA kits from companies like Ancestry are quite expensive - around £80. Lots of people do them to find out their ethnic make-up.

But that doesn't make them a con. It's entirely possible that someone who has American parents and and even American grandparents or great grandparents has a high percentage of Scottish DNA if people further back were from Scotland (or northern England, northern Ireland, there's an overlap) and then those immigrants in the late 19th century married people from within their own community.

Ancestral tourism and finding your roots is a HUGE industry in the US and there are lots of us who make a living or a sideline helping Americans look for ancestors in the UK. 24% of American visitors to Scotland feel they have an ancestral link to our country, which is great for our economy.

It is a bit weird though that Biden positions himself as "Irish" when his link was several generations back. Trump never branded himself as Scottish, even though his mother was born and grew up here. Obama didn't say he was Kenyan-American.

Anyway. It's all fairly harmless, if Americans want to come to Scotland or Ireland, spend their money, buy lots of tartan, pay people to guide them round places where their ancestors came from and spend their $$$ that's fine by me.

DH is Irish, born and grew up there, and has had virtual strangers in NY bars try to out-Irish him to prove their credentials as an Irish-American

Most of them are more fervent about their Irish roots than all the Irish people we know

Because their ancestors fled their homes and everything they knew. To escape poverty, persecution and famine. To make a better life for themselves and their descendants. In a place that was often lawless and dangerous. They shaped a new country, a now very powerful one. They are rightly proud. Irish. Italian. Jewish. Persian. Afgani. They didn’t assimilate and disappear. They kept their identity whilst being proudly American. Good.

@Twentypast

I have a friend in Boston who has one set of Irish and one set of Italian great grandparents. She makes a huge deal that she's Irish/italian American. My grandparents were Russian but I consider myself 100% British. I find it very weird.

And yet if an immigrant doesn’t get dewy eyed as they salute the flag and whisper ‘today - I... American!!!!!’...

Usually these threads deteriorate into one of Mumsnet's favourite sports - American bashing.
My closest friend is American, her Mum was from N. Ireland. Her tales of growing up in America and those of her mother coming to America as a young bride, and the prejudice she faced are really surprising, I had thought America was past that by the 1940s. Friend was even teased for things such as using her cutlery "wrongly" at school and was called derogatory names for being catholic. They eventually moved from a rural area to a large city and were much happier. Her Mum very much felt that their roots were important and brought her children up to be proud of them. They are still close to relatives in Ireland. Not sure what is wrong with celebrating your heritage, my own family is a big mix of Scottish and English, we embrace that.

I think if it amuses them then it's no skin off my nose. If it brings in tourist dollars, even better. Ireland, including me, was pretty much universally thrilled to claim Obama as one of our own when he came to visit. So we're happy enough with it when it's admirable or likeable people with Irish heritage but we have enough annoying people here already, we don't want annoying Americans too.

I do think that American's are a little under travelled though, they often have a very romantic idea of what Ireland it is like and I've met a few disillusioned tourists with a mild Irish version of Paris syndrome.

They also often believe that other nationalities behave towards their nationality in the way that Americans do, with flags in the garden and Stars and Stripes on everything from pants to duvet covers. I'm on a few quilt Facebook groups and a few times have had to gently persuade people that their Irish relative living in Ireland probably doesn't want a quilt made up of shamrocks and leprechauns. I usually point them in the direction of celtic knot type designs instead.

@Parker231

DH is French Canadian and refers to himself as that. Signifies his background.

Presumably he actually is French Canadian though, as in came from Canada personally, speaks French etc?

I've met Americans who have said they are french or Dutch or whatever. When I've asked if they speak the language they say oh no. So then I ask is it that your mum or dad are from France or Netherlands? Nope. Turns out to be some great great grandparent. So they may be like a 16th whatever, max. With no language and no cultural connection.

So now I just nod and say Great! And move on.

I think they just think it makes them more interesting.

I think the difference with not as many people identifying as English American is that the English language was part of the dominant culture that was forced upon all Americans, immigrants from other countries brought parts of their cultures with them and held on to traditions and formed communities to help cultural practices continue. Especially for people who might have been othered and discriminated against, celebrating their heritage was important to them.

I'm Irish and I have no problem with Irish Americans wanting to explore their roots. If you're familiar with Irish history you'd know that things were really shit here for a long time and a great number of the emigrants that left didn't have much of a choice and would have missed home, I think it's nice for their descendants to come here and try to connect with their ancestry.

A google I've just done contradicts that though. German doesn't seem to be that prevalent at all. Maybe I've misremembered what I read.

I lived in Canada for a while and this was very common there too "Italian-Canadian" etc. I think it's just more common in places that have had more immigration than in the UK (when I think of the people I worked with many of them were a generation or two down from immigrants).

It was actually quite a positive experience being able to talk about heritage, culture and ethnicity more freely.

The thing that’s always confused me most about Americans, is why they suddenly decided that Spainish people aren’t white.

My dad is Spanish, so over there I’m suddenly mixed race 🙄

@lnsufficientFuns - So many millions of Irish left Ireland in the potato famine that there was then a huge Irish influx in America in the 1840-50s.

The term "potato famine" is generally considered to be inappropriate and offensive. The great famine did not occur because of the failure of the potato crop, although it was obviously a contributory factor. It occurred because of British policy in Ireland and their efforts to clear the tenants from the land. There was more than enough food produced in the country.

@IsleofRum

Or "African American".

It's fine for the initial immigrant and first generation a little. But in you are born and live in the country you should accept that country as home. Otherwise keep a little connection if you like, but not seriously.

Having ancestors from Africa pretty much impacts every aspect of your life in Britain and more so in America. You don’t have the luxury of ‘choosing to keep a little connection’ 🤦🏻‍♀️

I got harangued by an Irish American online once for being English due to the Irish Famine.

I have, as it happens, only English Ancestry.

At the time of the famine my ancestors were illiterate and didn’t have the vote.

It is very hard for me to understand how it’s any part of my fault - it’s just an accident of birth.

It's an insecurity thing, I think, because everyone knows that unless an American is 100% Native American, their ancestors come from somewhere else. So where? That identity of where you came from originally is a big part of who people tell themselves they are. But it's all a sham, tbh, because many Americans are a mix of several different ancestries. My DH, for instance is 50% Polish, 25% German and 25% British and Irish, but because his last name is Irish he'd tell you he's an Irish-American and everyone accepts that because his last name tells you so. In actual fact, he's more Polish than anything else.

And you'd be amazed how many white Americans claim they're 1% Cherokee or something. It's actually pretty funny. My DH at one point claimed that he had a bit of Native American blood, but a DNA ancestry test finally put that one to bed

As for Italian-Americans who don't speak a word of Italian and Irish-Americans who've never set foot on the Emerald Isle, they are legion!

About 20 years ago I went to a bizarre event in Toronto, aimed at the proud ‘English Canadians’ . It was a big convention like a cross between an Oxford St Souvenir Shop and the Coronation St set. Lots of things on sale that you couldn’t get in Canada, Oxford Marmalade, Marmite, that sort of thing. Everyone went dressed in red white snd blue. Morris Dancing displays. Come to think if it, it was probably the last time I saw any live Morris dancing, living in ye merrie Englande as I do.

Anyway, they loved it, it was packed, many people said they went every year, it was all very good natured and for me a bit of a laugh.

@Leavisite has a point.

It's also worth considering history here. If you were one of millions whose parents held a "wake" for you before you left Ireland on a rickety boat to the US/Canada, you weave that experience for life. Whether it was the actual Famine or oppression because of their religion, they left out of desperation - these weren't people off to explore the New World for the fun of it. That experience was burned into the psyche.

I see modern day Irish/Italian Americans as merely identifying with their past but that's not to say that they're Irish. Instead it's a separate sub-culture with a common root albeit 150 years ago and is about the experience post leaving Ireland/Italy as the original root.

Years ago an American randomly visited long-lost family in Ireland and was clearly disappointed to find that they lived in modern houses and had all the gadgets that every American has. The gulf between living standards has closed completely.

@shouldistop

I'm scottish. I've been to the states 3 times. Every time I've been I had various Americans telling me they were 'scotch' too

@shouldistop - Snap ! I travel to the US regularly and it never fails to amuse me how many Scotch people there are ! I now smile and say “how nice “

First time it happened it was a young waitress who said she was from Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
I asked where she was born ( thinking by her Tennessee accent she moved as a toddler )

She said she was born in Memphis but her great great grandfather was from Greenock !!!
Not sure that would get her a U.K. passport 😂
Bonkers 😜

More Google information gives origins of immigrants between 1700 and 1775. There are slightly more Germans than English, but there are more Irish than either of those two, and heading for three times as many Africans as Irish.

medium.com/exploring-history/the-origin-of-american-surnames-eb0901b80335

I'm an Irish person born and bred in Ireland and I love irish music, dance etc and like that Irish - American s or whatever part of world they're from enjoy it. If everyone dropped cultural reference s after a generation passed , places like the US would be far less interesting..I love the melting pot vibe in new York for example...so much more interesting than I'd everyone just called themselves American . Also agree that the trauma of a millions of people being forced to emigrate when there was no way home again probably lingers on in the 'nostalgic' feeling people have