Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Penelope jackson guilty of murder

407 replies

Thomasina79 · 29/10/2021 16:51

I’ve been following this news item with interest. She is the woman who stabbed her violent and coercive and bullying husband to death after 20 years of torment. She denied murder, but admitted manslaughter.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking the jury should have not found her guilty of murder but guilty of manslaughter. Murder carries a life sentence in prison and I cannot see that that there is anything to gain by locking her away.

OP posts:
mountbattenbergcake · 29/10/2021 20:15

@x2boys

Well she reapetedly stabbed him and said she wanted to kill him so if had survived ,she was also violent ,once violent always violent according to your rules *@mountbattebergcake*
Self-defence is different. He was the aggressor throughout their marriage.
Puzzledandpissedoff · 29/10/2021 20:16

I find it very scary how people make up their own narrative and write it as fact in criminal cases

It always happens though; in a way it's another example of "I think they did/meant such-and-such ... so they must have done ... so they did"

Seems that courtroom must have been pretty packed, what with so many people who are sure they know what happened ...

mountbattenbergcake · 29/10/2021 20:16

@PurpleOkapi

If my husband locked me in the conservatory, I'd "brandish" whatever was at hand trying to get out, too.

She locked him in the conservatory BECAUSE he was brandishing a poker. Jesus.

Her search history doesn't establish that she believed she was abused, just that she was looking for a place to leave. Even if it did, her subjective belief that she was abused doesn't prove that it was true.

No, she was looking for a DOMESTIC VIOLENCE REFUGE.

More importantly, this was all several years ago. There's a big difference between killing someone because you're angry that they abused you in the past, and killing them because you reasonably perceive a threat to your life in the moment. The former is murder. The latter generally isn't.

She was looking for the DV refuge in DECEMBER 2020.

PurpleOkapi · 29/10/2021 20:17

Self-defence is different. He was the aggressor throughout their marriage.

If she'd stabbed him in a confrontation he'd initiated as the aggressor, the case would have been very different. That's not what she did.

LittleDandelionClock · 29/10/2021 20:17

but we are talking about an elderly couple it not easy to just get up and go.

I think what this woman did is abhorrent, and she deserves the murder charge, but I agree with this. It really grates on me when some people say on here 'just LEAVE,' even when the woman is in her late 50s/early 60s... Like she is just a spring chicken, and can just start her life over, forge a new career, and find a wonderful new man.

Ain't gonna happen.

What man is a 60-year-old woman going to get? Not a handsome, fun-loving, go-getting 40 year old man who will want to travel, get involved in new hobbies, give her great sex, and will rarely complain or moan about anything. A 60 year old woman is not what a man like this is looking for! He is looking for a woman in her mid 30s or younger.

The only thing a 60 y.o. woman will get the is the same grumpy moaning whiny boring old fecker with multiple health ailments that she wants to get away from so badly...

Went off on a tangent there, but even so, I agree with a pp that no matter how hard it, leaving has still got to be a better option than murdering your husband! No matter how abusive he (allegedly) is/was.

@darbs

I think she was guilty of murder. Reading her history too I think the police body camera caught the real Penny Jackson.

Agree!

@ssd don't worry, I think despite a few apologists on here, the vast majority of people agree that she deserved the murder charge and conviction, and she IS a callous murderer.

mountbattenbergcake · 29/10/2021 20:17

@Puzzledandpissedoff

I find it very scary how people make up their own narrative and write it as fact in criminal cases

It always happens though; in a way it's another example of "I think they did/meant such-and-such ... so they must have done ... so they did"

Seems that courtroom must have been pretty packed, what with so many people who are sure they know what happened ...

No, just willing to believe eye witness statements from their daughter, her search history and the police records of her calling the police on him.
12548ehe9fnfobms · 29/10/2021 20:19

This thread goes part way to explaining why men with violent wives are unable to talk about it, society finds it hard to accept that women can be this violent & abusive to men.
There are more victims in these situations as often children are witnesses. They grow up in violent homes with no understanding outside the home of what they are dealing with, not just when the violence spills over, but on a daily basis.

PurpleOkapi · 29/10/2021 20:20

[quote mountbattenbergcake]@PurpleOkapi

If my husband locked me in the conservatory, I'd "brandish" whatever was at hand trying to get out, too.

She locked him in the conservatory BECAUSE he was brandishing a poker. Jesus.

Her search history doesn't establish that she believed she was abused, just that she was looking for a place to leave. Even if it did, her subjective belief that she was abused doesn't prove that it was true.

No, she was looking for a DOMESTIC VIOLENCE REFUGE.

More importantly, this was all several years ago. There's a big difference between killing someone because you're angry that they abused you in the past, and killing them because you reasonably perceive a threat to your life in the moment. The former is murder. The latter generally isn't.

She was looking for the DV refuge in DECEMBER 2020.[/quote]
I'm going by what you wrote in the post: "How is this not proof of an abusive marriage - witnesses, proof of police complaint and her search history from years ago?"

Anyway, how long ago it was doesn't matter all that much. What matters is that it wasn't happening at that moment, and therefore wasn't self-defence. The fact that she was aware of refuges and chose not to use one, instead deciding that she'd rather stay put and kill him because he deserved it, isn't exactly a point in her favour.

GingerScallop · 29/10/2021 20:21

I agree with @midsomermurderess

I also think if murder is intentional killing then her stabbing him more while he was on call to emergency services and was seemingly not an immediate threat was possibly a key factor in the jury's decision

Mynameismargot · 29/10/2021 20:23

Even if it did, her subjective belief that she was abused doesn't prove that it was true.

Yeah I mean having a knife held to your throat or having a poker waved at you is not always domestic violence right, just because she believed it was doesn't make it so. Maybe he was playing fruit ninja with the knife and she just got in the way and maybe he was swatting a fly with the poker, she just misunderstood what abuse is, silly woman.

mountbattenbergcake · 29/10/2021 20:23

I'm going by what you wrote in the post: "How is this not proof of an abusive marriage - witnesses, proof of police complaint and her search history from years ago?"

I clarified in my next post that the history was actually from Dec 2020.

And we know that it's not easy for women to leave.

PurpleOkapi · 29/10/2021 20:27

@Mynameismargot

Even if it did, her subjective belief that she was abused doesn't prove that it was true.

Yeah I mean having a knife held to your throat or having a poker waved at you is not always domestic violence right, just because she believed it was doesn't make it so. Maybe he was playing fruit ninja with the knife and she just got in the way and maybe he was swatting a fly with the poker, she just misunderstood what abuse is, silly woman.

Her saying something happened doesn't prove that it actually happened. The fact that she later murdered him when he posed no threat rather cuts against her credibility.
HeartsAndClubs · 29/10/2021 20:28

It’s gone too far because we essentially have posters on here condoning premeditated murder. It’s as good as incitement.

It doesn’t actually matter if she was abused, she murdered someone. The one does not balance out the other. She’s a murderer and needs to serve her sentence accordingly.

And if she was capable of murdering someone in that manner then it’s obvious she was capable of abusing him beforehand.

Maybe the man held a knife to her throat in self defence? After all, if she’d done that then people would be cheering her on. But no. A man possibly defended himself against a woman who has been said to be the abuser in a marriage,and we must immediately assume he was in the wrong. But a woman murders someone without remorse, with glee in fact, and people uphold her as some kind of hero.

it’s disgraceful.

PurpleOkapi · 29/10/2021 20:30

And we know that it's not easy for women to leave.

It's also quite difficult, physically and psychologically, to stab someone over and over until they finally bleed to death. Even if everything she claimed about past abuse was 100% true, I still don't see how murder is the easier option here.

Userguaranteed · 29/10/2021 20:30

Spot on. Repulsive the mental gymnastics some are doing here.

There are many women who're victims. Let's leave this obvious male victim to die in peace without victim blaming him. He's a victim of murder.

Userguaranteed · 29/10/2021 20:31

@HeartsandClubs

x2boys · 29/10/2021 20:32

Unless you were actually in the marriage,you are twisting things to suit your own narrative @mountbattenbergcake non us know what happened including you
But I'm guessing the Jury knows more than us .

Userguaranteed · 29/10/2021 20:32

Meant rest in peace. He obviously didn't die in peace.

ancientgran · 29/10/2021 20:34

@LittleDandelionClock

but we are talking about an elderly couple it not easy to just get up and go.

I think what this woman did is abhorrent, and she deserves the murder charge, but I agree with this. It really grates on me when some people say on here 'just LEAVE,' even when the woman is in her late 50s/early 60s... Like she is just a spring chicken, and can just start her life over, forge a new career, and find a wonderful new man.

Ain't gonna happen.

What man is a 60-year-old woman going to get? Not a handsome, fun-loving, go-getting 40 year old man who will want to travel, get involved in new hobbies, give her great sex, and will rarely complain or moan about anything. A 60 year old woman is not what a man like this is looking for! He is looking for a woman in her mid 30s or younger.

The only thing a 60 y.o. woman will get the is the same grumpy moaning whiny boring old fecker with multiple health ailments that she wants to get away from so badly...

Went off on a tangent there, but even so, I agree with a pp that no matter how hard it, leaving has still got to be a better option than murdering your husband! No matter how abusive he (allegedly) is/was.

@darbs

I think she was guilty of murder. Reading her history too I think the police body camera caught the real Penny Jackson.

Agree!

@ssd don't worry, I think despite a few apologists on here, the vast majority of people agree that she deserved the murder charge and conviction, and she IS a callous murderer.

Don't write us off. I'm late 60s and quite capable of leaving and starting a new life and funnily enough that wouldn't depend on me finding a new man, old and grumpy or a toy boy.

In fact I'd say it would be easier now than when I was younger with children. My children are grown up, my pensions, SRP and my work one, are guaranteed and regular. I might be talking myself into something.

sweeneytoddsrazor · 29/10/2021 20:34

Search histories are never going to be concrete proof though. How many people reading through threads on here for example then go and look something up to find out what it is even if it doesn't relate to their own situations.

itsgettingwierd · 29/10/2021 20:35

Seems that courtroom must have been pretty packed, what with so many people who are sure they know what happened ...

Doesn't it so!

wheresmymojo · 29/10/2021 20:37

Two observations...

  1. They both seem, by all accounts, dreadful and perhaps quite a good match for each other and keeping anyone else from having to be in a relationship with either of them
  1. This whole thread underlines what a morbid sense of humour I have. PPs describing the video of her as chilling...it made me laugh out loud!
BiLuminous · 29/10/2021 20:37

I wonder if the ones defending her have read all of the highly disturbing details? I wont write them here but go read a few different articles. Its horrifying.

itsgettingwierd · 29/10/2021 20:37

No, just willing to believe eye witness statements from their daughter, her search history and the police records of her calling the police on him.

It's perfectly fine you believe the version of media reporting around this you want.

However the full facts of the whole case were presented in court to a jury. Something only those in the courtroom heard.

After hearing all the facts and evidence she was found guilty of murder.

ancientgran · 29/10/2021 20:39

[quote mountbattenbergcake]@PurpleOkapi

If my husband locked me in the conservatory, I'd "brandish" whatever was at hand trying to get out, too.

She locked him in the conservatory BECAUSE he was brandishing a poker. Jesus.

Her search history doesn't establish that she believed she was abused, just that she was looking for a place to leave. Even if it did, her subjective belief that she was abused doesn't prove that it was true.

No, she was looking for a DOMESTIC VIOLENCE REFUGE.

More importantly, this was all several years ago. There's a big difference between killing someone because you're angry that they abused you in the past, and killing them because you reasonably perceive a threat to your life in the moment. The former is murder. The latter generally isn't.

She was looking for the DV refuge in DECEMBER 2020.[/quote]
I read she locked him in the conservatory and he was brandishing a poker, it didn't say if he was brandishing it before or after she locked him in. I don't know if that is clarified anywhere but it does make a difference.

Either way the jury heard more evidence than we have so I think we have to trust their decision.