To not understand the benefit system . What is going on ?

[Westnsouthnabout]

I have got totally out of touch with the benefits system.. used to work in public services so did used to be in direct contact with a variety of social issues.
Am aware that sudden breakages like washing machines to be paid for, delays in initial payment and sanctioning can mean a sudden and catastrophic change in cash flow.
However, I have been reading that food banks are utterly stretched and in crisis.
I do understand that many people end up in emeegency sitiations, however, have also been reading that some are actually reliant on regular food banks . Sort of like a weekly shop..
I totally accept that I am out of touch with current situations and would like to kmow( seperate to current rising cost of living etc which i know about) .. what is going on re why so many people are relying on them as a regular source of food when they are in reciept of a regular and mostly preductable income( apart from sanctions etc as i said) in the form of benefits.
I am aware I am ignorant amd want to understand more and perhaps contribute.

I think one issue is that food can be an easy thing to move down the priority list. By that I mean, rents, bills, public transport costs etc are typically consistently the same, where if you usually budget say £50 for food, and suddenly need to pay out an unexpected £10 for a school trip, it's easier to take that from the food budget (which is flexible by taking advantage of special offers or buying different brands) than taking it from say the rent budget, or other areas budget which wouldn't work by being paid less.

Those genuinely in need of help to pay for basics are in a roundabout way encouraged to push food and gas and electricity down the priority list because these are the easiest things to access elsewhere. By that I mean, our local council will make discretionary crisis payments to those who have lost or spent their money and have no food or electricity, but not to those who have bought a weekly shop but can't pay their Internet bill, because that's not deemed a necessity.

Similarly, it is easier to get a referral to a food bank or access one which doesn't need a referral, than it is to have your landlord agree to reduce your rent for example.

I am certainly aware that food and electricity would be the easiest of my expenses to access help with if I were in a situation where I couldn't meet my full cost of living for any period of time.

Benefits cover living costs just about if you have no debts, credit cards, loans, extra living costs etc. Once you are in cycle of living in over draft and debt it’s impossible get out of. Missed loan payments more fees. Dipping in overdraft here is massive charge.

UC has its flaws in that if you get paid twice in 4 weeks it causes problems as counts the pay as double not two months pay. Also the getting into debt waiting for UC. Zero hours where amount chance all the time so can’t plan or never know if can met commitments.

Plus if you are on Disability benefits and get reviews then can cancel them all which means also affect housing element and May take months to sort out (70-90%) win at appeal. But could take 6-12m
If you on jobseekers rate while all extra costs of disability still.

Some homes with meters cost far more heat again more if have previous debt so more goes on gas meter than you or I may use, less money for food.

Any drug alcohol even smoking issues in house massively affect the money left over. Plus some people can’t get grasp on basic affairs whether for literacy reasons or lack capacity mental ill health etc so go from crisis to crisis even without any external events.

It's also worth mentioning that benefits have not risen in line with inflation, so the money you get covers a lot less.

If you are on benefits for more than a few months you can end up with debts relating to expensive but necessary items (eg boiler, car repairs) that mount up.

You sometimes get people in the public eye living on benefits for a week or two to show how it's possible, which always irritated me because it's obvious that doesn't reflect reality.

We had a very low income topped up by £700 a month tax credits, but fortunately only for a few months. We just managed but there was no spare cash for anything. The children's birthday presents were just a few quid and I was very proud of how they accepted this and didn't whinge. I remember buying some cheap children's clothes at the market and they gave me a foreign coin in my change meaning I was a quid down, which messed up my budget and really upset me.

We didn't buy any new shoes and hardly any clothes other than what was absolutely necessary during that period, but obviously that can't go on for long.

I managed to get another job and the following month the boiler went tits up - that was nearly £2K - then a couple of months later the car needed major repairs. That would have destroyed our budget if we were still on the low income.

Because bog standard benefits aren't sufficient to live on.

Yes I think the debt trap has a huge amount to do with it. Just having a small credit card payment because you had to pay for a repair can really tip people over the edge financially sadly.

We get UC at the moment...had to claim it first time in lockdown.

Yesterday £1070 went into my bank account from UC.

Rent £510.00
Council Tax £170
Gas and Electric £85
Water combined £50
TV licence £15 or so
Mobile phone £20
Internet and phone plus basic sky package £55

Husband's income varies as he is self employed but it's still very much recovering from the pandemic.

Plus the above includes a disabled child element ...without that we'd get at least £200 less.

If anything packs up we would be in dire straits.

Thankfully we have never had to use a good bank. Plus I'm a dab hand at whipping up a meal from nothing/store cupboard items and I know not everyone can do that,

In another life I worked for a housing association and often went through peoples budget with them and honestly benefits are fuck all… despite people on MN saying they know people who get 70k a year off the state.

I remember sitting down with one lady and after she would have paid rent, household bills, mobile bill, food and petrol… she would be £20 short a week.
In her area public transport was crap so giving up the car was not an option. It’s really hard.

The old housing benefit system meant that the majority of people who lived in private rented accommodation (outside of London) received benefit that paid most of their rent, or if they did have to pay a top up (because the rent was considered too high) it was a manageable amount, eg £50 a month.
Now with rents being proportionally much higher and the amount that the govt thinks rent should be, it's really common for people to be paying high top ups (eg for a family £100-200 a month) That money can only come out of what they should have to live off (and whether that's technically made up of benefit or low paid wages, it'll be a thrifty amount to start with - because if they had any more, they'd get less UC housing element and have to pay the difference and so on)

The other aspect is that the old system of benefits paid from the day you applied, assuming you qualified. It might take them a while to process it, but you would eventually get the money. UC doesn't. You have to wait a while before they pay you, and then they only pay you from that date - meaning you go a few weeks without any money at all. Many people get into debt at the start that they can never get out of. The govt make a big deal out of people being able to apply for support if destitute, but that support is a loan, which is taken off your future entitlement.

Oh and the limits applied to families who have had the temerity to have more children than the govt thinks they should, some of which is applied retrospectively. So people don't get the basic amounts (which are already set lower than you need to live off)

It doesn't matter if your rent is £900 a month - the housing allowance is set at 30% of market rents.
So you might get £740 a month and then pay the rest out of own pocket or living allowance.
Also very limited support if you have a mortgage.
Try a benefit calculator for yourself. See how much you'd be entitled to, that will give you an idea.

If it’s a decision of heating or food, your going to go with the decision of heating AND food from the food bank.

In addition to the above, don't forget that a lot of things are more expensive if you have to pay for them in installments rather than upfront. Or, for example, if you have to buy gas and electricity on a prepayment meter, it's way more expensive than direct debit standard plans. Even things like school uniform might have been bought on an installment plan, which will then incur interest payments which you wouldn't have had if you'd been able to afford to pay it at at once. So basically being poor is penalised.

I think it is much harder to be under the benefits system now. I was on income support as a lone parent carer from 1999-2013 and although my income was low, I always managed to have enough to pay bills and food, we even went on holiday (in UK) once a year. I was in council housing and my full rent was covered, but the housing allocation rules have changed so it's much harder to get that now even if you are in the same situation as I was in (disabled single parent leaving a DV relationship).

My adult DS is on benefits now and he manages fine (in fact it's quite a reasonable amount as he lives at home and gets enhanced rate disability). But it's still less than he would have got if he'd been claiming under the old system.

Whiskyinajar

Is that a month ? You've only got £100 left from your universal credit to pay for food/clothing/kids parties/social anything for a MONTH

That's awful - you'll literally starve - you won't get food for 3 for £30 a week

Because everyone at the bottom of the pile is being squeezed more and more, especially after the last 20 odd months, those who were managing are now not, when 100% pay means you could afford a few treats, 80% means you are stretched but doable for 6 months, then it extends and you are starting to struggle. Boiler breaks, car needs more doing on it than you thought, then food prices going up, gas prices going up, and it just piles in on you and suddenly you have gone from having 2 weeks in a caravan in cornwell to debating whether you are going to be able to eat that week

I get that benefits are meant to be for basic needs etc, but it doesn't take into account things like internet and a means to access it like a phone or a laptop.

It use to be go to a library and do everything from there, till they started closing down the libraries.

According to a link I've just found, a government enquiry in 2014 did raise the question whether supply was driving demand. i.e. if there are more food banks, people are more likely to rely on them. If that were true, I'd wonder why supply had spontaneously increased though.

The usual suspect, Universal Credit, is mentioned, but with a statistic that UC problems explain 17% of increased usage, so it doesn't seem right to solely or mainly blame that.

Benefit sanctions are mentioned as another cause.

Apparently about half of food bank users are there as a result of an unexpected cash-flow issue, rather than as a result of a general lack of funds.

Overall the link says it's not clear why food bank usage has increased.

fullfact.org/economy/why-are-more-people-using-food-banks/

With the cap on the number of children UC will pay for if they are born after a certain date , when was that introduced?

Are there any figures for that policy as I really doubt that anyone would have had a bigger family just to get a few pounds extra a week as a child would still cost more than then increase ….

Would be interesting to see the numbers

@Whiskyinajar

We get UC at the moment...had to claim it first time in lockdown.

Yesterday £1070 went into my bank account from UC.

Rent £510.00
Council Tax £170
Gas and Electric £85
Water combined £50
TV licence £15 or so
Mobile phone £20
Internet and phone plus basic sky package £55

Husband's income varies as he is self employed but it's still very much recovering from the pandemic.

Plus the above includes a disabled child element ...without that we'd get at least £200 less.

If anything packs up we would be in dire straits.

Thankfully we have never had to use a good bank. Plus I'm a dab hand at whipping up a meal from nothing/store cupboard items and I know not everyone can do that,

So how much of earnings did you get on top of the UC?

The cost of living has increased greatly. Benefits haven’t.

There's as many different situations as there are claimants but common themes from when I ran a good bank were benefit delays, marriage/relationship breakdown especially where there was abuse, and most of all debts. I'm a certified debt counsellor and it still astonishes me the lack of financial literacy adults have, food ends up being a lower priority and so they need handouts. I'm not judging anyone, but so often naivety with money is the route cause.

My gas and electric costs for a small flat this time of year were maximum 10 pounds a week. Now they are 30 pounds a week.

I'm not aware that it is an 'easy' option to go to a food bank.
I used one several years ago only once and never went back even though I needed it. Three reasons. First, you had to get a referral from CAB or similar. Second, what was in the parcel was hardly useable for us due to medical conditions. Third the stigma of it. After doing it once I came to the conclusion I would rather starve.

The say 'the door to poverty is wide and the exit is small'

Meaning - it is very easy for something to happen in your life, i.e. ill health, divorce, bereavement...which pushes you into poverty.

When you are there despite what the government say, it is very difficult to move out of it.

Relative to income if you are on a low income everything is more expensive i.e. pre payment meters etc.

The poorer you are the more everything costs.
Cant pay upfront so end up on credit plans, cant take advantage of bogof deals or larger sizes. Cant stock up on yellow sticker deals and freeze them as that all requires spare cash upfront you dont have.
Gas and electricity on meters which cost more.
Any unexpected bill can be a disaster on a fixed and limited budget, taking months and months to recover from. because theres no further cuts you can make.

Benefits haven't risen in line with inflation, benefits are worth 11% less than they were in 2013.

This isn’t something that I see. It honestly baffles me when I hear people struggle on benefits. Yet they come in to the office, hair, Botox, lip filler, new car, (yes we can see the car park), clothes, latest phone, sky package, see all the outgoings on bank statements, the extravagant holidays etc. Most of their disposable incomes were higher than most of the staff. Maybe that affluent lifestyle comes from the white van parked on the drive way. Who knows.

I can see how the very few genuine ones struggle and should definitely get paid more, but with all the ones milking the system, making fraudulent claims it’s very unlikely.

they come in to the office [with] clothes
Well that's completely unreasonable.

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