Who is BU - me, the plumber or the joiner?

[Wife2b]

Last week we had the plumber come in to fit new radiators, he had the joiner with him who will be doing our skirtings and is aware of the measurements. They figured out the measurements between themselves and I left them to it.

At some point they shout me upstairs to confirm happy with positioning. Fast forward to yesterday, we realised that the skirting will not fit as the radiators have been positioned too low. The joiner suggested we put wood on the wall to have the radiator stick out more and the skirting could be cut to go behind the radiator but it was significantly overlap. I said I wasn’t happy with that suggestion because I want it to look right (we’ve spent a lot of money renovating the house). Joiner said that’s not a problem we’ll sort it. He calls the plumber who agrees to come back and refit the radiators but he wants paying.

Plumber says we have to order new pipe tails as the previous ones have been sawn to size and therefore the radiator cannot be raised without longer ones. Annoying, it’s another £60 but hey ho. He then says he wants paying £160 for coming out again, the joiner offered to go halves with me but I was reluctant to agree because of having to buy more pipe tails. Joiner said he’d absorb the cost and he just wants solutions not problems. In the end I had a chat with my other half and we felt bad for the joiner losing that much money as he too will lose a days work so we gave him £50 so we and the joiner in total paid £110 each to rectify the mistake.

Personally I think it was an error they none of us picked up on so the best thing to do would have been to split the cost three ways (although not sure how fair that would have been because obviously the joiner lost a days work too). The way I see it, the plumber is quids in for something the he was equally responsible for. He is blaming me saying I approved the positioning (never crossed my mind about the skirting but why would it - I don’t do this day in day out for a living, I just saw it was centralised and thought great). The joiner thinks it’s a mistake all round. I think it was their responsibility to be aware of fixings skirtings etc knowing the materials that were in order but I offered money as I felt bad on the joiner for the plumber demanding more money.

Who is being unreasonable?

How it is anyone other than the plumbers fault?
He knew skirting boards were going in and fitted everything too close.

Yep, it's the plumber's fault. He had the discussion with the joiner, and still put the rad in the wrong place.

I think you may have to suck it up though. Round my way, plumbers are booking work into February, they're so busy. They can pick and choose jobs.

God I hate this kind of thing. I'm a teacher. I know nothing about floor laying, plumbing, joinery, how long plaster takes to dry or anything else that goes with having an extension built but I had endless crap and hassle with tradespeople who wanted me to decide which method they should use, blamed each other for stuff done that didn't fit or coordinate etc. In the end, if you want it done you end up paying but it is v v annoying.

Agree with pp, this is the plumbers fault - he was aware skirting was being fitted.

The plumber knew skirting was being fitted. He had a conversation with the joiner about it.

It's his fault, he should pay

Yes the plumber is being unreasonable but you also approved of the original fitting...

50/50 and call it quits.

It's not possible to say whether it's entirely the plumber's fault - did he put the radiator in the position he and the joiner jointly agreed on or did he put it up wrong?

It isn't your fault though. You couldn't possibly have known

I think you've been very reasonable in offering to stand some of the cost. It is entirely their error but as PPs have said, tradesmen are so busy atm that if you don't compromise they're unlikely to sort it out.
I always employ a local small builder for works when multiple trades are involved. He obviously gets a cut but any sh*te like this becomes his problem to solve and his cost to absorb in the original quote. Examples include damage done to brand new fixtures by electricians (twice). At least I know which (well known local electricians I won't be using for any work I want doing in future!).

Your joiner sounds like he's worth his weight in gold.

Not sure why he's been added in as potentially being unreasonable.

Plumber all day long

Why dont you offer to pay for his materials if he puts the labour in as a compromise
A decent plumber would just come back and sort it out but compromise is the name of the day

At some point they shout me upstairs to confirm happy with positioning.

You had the final say on the position. Ultimately your responsibility.

Any decent plumber would know about length of tails required and skirting boards - the fact he didnt would make me question how good of a plumber he actually is? It's Not like rooms are regularly finished without skirting boards 🤔 - the only rooms you'd expect no skirting boards is if the floor is tiled and there is going to be a tiled skirting

You agreed to it so it's your fault.

The joiner sounds like a really good egg. Plumber is unreasonable.

Ok, there’s a slight degree of responsibility with you since they asked you to confirm but that’s only a pretty basic check on your part. He’s the expert. Kind of reminds me when you have surgery and they get you to confirm what you’re having. They are only looking for a ‘yep, that’s it’ kind of response to confirm everyone know they are doing a gallbladder and not a limb amputation. Not all the technical details. Skirting boards are details!

Plumber fitted it too low. Costs are on him, generous of joiner to offer.

Could you not just use a narrower skirting board? I agree it’s mainly plumbers fault so he should bear some of cost.

Plumber's fault, unless the joiner gave him the wrong measurements for the skirting boards. I would have wanted an answer to that before paying. It's a lesson that you have to recheck EVERYTHING when it's your project.

I actually think the plumber and joiner are jointly responsible. If they were together and arranged the positioning surely the joiner should have said it needs to be Xcm high in order to fit the skirtings. They were both sorting the positioning together so they are both to blame.
You are not responsible at all because you shouldn’t have had to check their measurements just check you like the aesthetics.

Thanks all, it’s all sorted now obviously myself and the joiner are splitting costs but we are both equally as frustrated with the plumber for demanding more money - they’re both out of a days work. Our joiner is a great guy, we’ll defo have him back for future projects.

I feel sorry for the joiner here and wouldn't use the plumber again

Do whatever it takes to keep your gem of a joiner happy. Tolerate this nonsense but don’t use that plumber again.

And in future when asked to approve something, ask exactly what you’re meant to be signing off on – we employ trades to be the experts but so often it’s a “This OK?” check and they don’t tell you the context, and as non-experts it’s easy to look at a centralised radiator or tiles on a wall or whatever and think “Yeah, it’s fine…?” Always ask what it is that they’re asking!

When you all agreed on the positioning, was it as low as they've been fitted?

I would get another plumber to do the work irrespective of how much it costs, it would seriously grieve me to put another penny in the pocket of the one you’ve already used.

@DumplingsAndStew

When you all agreed on the positioning, was it as low as they've been fitted?

It was but none of us thought of the skirting boards. The joiner said he told the plumber the size of the skirting boards but they were both up there marking the measurements on the walls.

Unfortunately not as we have already ordered the skirtings and they are in production ready for Monday delivery.