to think Taylor Swift is our century's answer to William Shakespeare

[beastlyslumber]

She's such an incredible storyteller and lyricist (and her songs are ridiculously catchy. It's all about the hooks.) Listening to her album 'folkore' this afternoon - she wrote two whole albums in lockdown, you know. And they're both great, but 'folklore' is insanely good. As she moves away from autobiographical writing into character stories, her storytelling is getting even more emotionally direct, and even more fun. She's a total genius. Even on the rare occasions when her hooks and melodies don't grip you, her lyrics always get right to the heart of things.

If there's any justice in the world, Ms Swift will still be celebrated in 500 years for her original, moving, funny, perceptive and subversive writing.

YANBU = Obviously! She is the Bard of Pop
YABU = WTF? She's way better than Shakespeare

@Iloveallofthem

Oh man.

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

You ok there?

Another artist I would hugely recommend for lyric prowess is Brandi Carlile. She’s wonderful:

Don't even think about your freedom
Or taking that flight
Or going back upon your promise after fighting for the right
Because your eggshells and your right statements
And your weaponized words
Are paper tigers now
Oh your constant overthinking and your secretive drinking
Are making you more and more alone
And girl, you can slam the door behind you
It ain't ever gonna close
Because when you're home, you're already home

Or

All your mountains turn to rocks
All your oceans turn to drops
They are nothing like you thought
You can't be something you are not
Life is not a looking glass
Don't get tangled in your past
Like I am learning not to

Or

I can try and I wont find it where I'm looking
I can hold it till its putty in my hands
You cant break a heart that wasn't even yours to break
You can never be there for me in the end
But I will do the right thing I will, I will, I will
I will, I will, I will

I don't think you ever learned a thing from me
But I'm sure that you want me to learn from you
And you've drawn heavy, handed lines around morality
About yourself and I don't share your point of view

@smoko

No, Eminem widely considered to be the modern day Shakespeare.

No

Just-No.

Immediate turn the radio off. Kids are banned from listening to him when I'm around. I hate him that much

But yes, I love Taylor Swift 💕💕💕

@Disfordarkchocolate

She is pretty fab. Folklore got me through lock down.

However, Paul Heaton is The Last King of Pop and a lyrical wonder.

I totes concur re: Heaton - his lyrics are clever, witty, tragic, touching, understated and everything in between. He's got that lightness of touch that I envy so much in songwriting - there's nothing overwrought or crow-barred in. I love songwriters like Kate Bush, Guy Garvey and Jarvis Cocker, too, but there's just something so truly... special, I guess, about Paul Heaton's writing.

I don't think a single one of her songs will stand the test of time. Though that's par for the course these days. All the so called mega artists like Ed Sheeran, Adele, TS, Beyonce etc are lucky to have one or two Great songs a decade.

I totally agree op! She is a masterful lyricist. I've been a fan since 2008 when I first heard our song. I'd love to buy her a drink to say thanks for the memories because her songs are literally the sound track to my life.

The imagery she can create is wonderful, sometimes it's simple things like in the best day but there's so much emotion behind them. Same with the lyrics in Ronan, I don't think I've ever gotten to the end of that song without ugly crying.

I love that she's such a good role model too, she takes no shit and makes no apologies for being a strong woman but still seems kind and level headed.

She’s brilliant and I love her, but have you actually read any Shakespeare? Total genius and untouchable.

@Skysblue

She’s brilliant and I love her, but have you actually read any Shakespeare? Total genius and untouchable.

Yes, I love Shakespeare. Have read everything he wrote and seen most of the plays at least once. My love of Taylor Swift does not diminish my love of Shakespeare, or vice versa! I think Shakespeare would have loved her too

She’s nice to look at. I’m ambivalent about her music.

@Cam77

I don't think a single one of her songs will stand the test of time. Though that's par for the course these days. All the so called mega artists like Ed Sheeran, Adele, TS, Beyonce etc are lucky to have one or two Great songs a decade.

What do you think of as a test of time?

Yabu! I love Taylor swift waaay better than Shakespeare!

It also made me laugh that lots of the snarky indie boys really struggled with her work with The National and Bon Iver.

This always entertains me! She's worked with everyone cool.

Have you been sniffing marker pens?

@PinkBuffalo

Yabu! I love Taylor swift waaay better than Shakespeare!

I'm so winning my aibu vote! Awesome!

My mum was also ill when I heard this

"Holy orange bottles
Each night I pray to you
Desperate people find faith
So now I pray to Jesus too
Cos I have to"

I think Taylor believes generally? But I, as a desperate woman, had been to church for the first time, seeking help, just days before that album came out.

It really resonated because I had to at leadt pretend, as a desperate person in that moment, that I had sime faith.

Miss Americana & the Heartbreak Prince - that reminds me of a previous thread and I wonder if non fans know what it's about. I remember a thread about rubbish modern music with songs only about love 🙄 and a poster quoted the 1975 "It's not living if it's not with you" thinking it was about a person...a proper "but someone is wrong on the internet" moment 😂

@Skysblue

She’s brilliant and I love her, but have you actually read any Shakespeare? Total genius and untouchable.

Not sure anyone could seriously argue that ‘When I do count the clock that tells the time, And see the brave day sunk in hideous night’ is better poetry than ‘They told me all of my cages were mental/So I got wasted like all my potential/And my words shoot to kill when I'm mad/I have a lot of regrets about that’.

I’m not trying to undermine Shakespeare. There’s a reason he has stood the rest of time. But he has plenty of duff lines alongside the greats, and while it’s hard to compare the two genres, there is definitely an argument to be made that Taylor Swift meets his standard of poetic greatness.

Will look up suggestions later

The only Brandi Carlile song I know is the one that says "alone is the last place to be" and that line has hit me hard in the past too.

*sorry, that should read "alone is the last place I wanted to be".

My Tears Ricochet made me stop in my tracks, it's a wonderful song.

"I can go anywhere I want, anywhere I want just not home"
This lyric has more feeling in it than anything I've heard in the last 10 years.

I saw her documentary on Netflix a while ago and she comes across as a very decent well grounded woman who has been through a lot. She was very publicly bullied by Kanye West and Kim Kardashian and although proven to be telling the truth was given no kudos for having to handle the situation.

I love her. Folklore is an amazing album. It’s in my car and my DDs and I are obsessed with it and know every word. The lyrics are genius. I love Betty, August, Exile and The Lakes. I don’t know about Shakespeare....but I would go as far as Bob Dylan.

there is definitely an argument to be made that Taylor Swift meets his standard of poetic greatness.

I don't think is a viable argument at all, despite agreeing that TS is an awesome lyricist and one of the best currently producing. You've done that thing of comparing one of her best lines with one of his worst. I don't think anyone comes close to Shakespeare for facility with language.

But equally, songwriting/performing are separate arts and TS is a very accomplished performer on top of everything else. I don't think there's much to be gained from trying to make comparisons between them.

I like Taylor Swift, but I think you might be overestimating her a tiny bit.

Then again, Shakespeare was appreciated more by the 'groundlings' of his time than as 'high culture'.

I suppose it's entirely possible in five hundred years time teachers will suck the fun out of 'Teardrops on my Guitar' by insisting children do a long essay about gender and societal themes of the 21st century.

My Tears Ricochet made me stop in my tracks, it's a wonderful song.

Yes! One of my favourites.

Yanbu.

Folklore and Evermore are two stunning pieces of work. Completely captivating. So much weirdness and beauty and grief. My 3 yo actually becomes upset and emotional when the albums are put on now because apparently they make her feel 'too sad'. She's a very musical child and has never reacted like that to anything else.
I get it though, 'seven' from folklore gives me utter chills and I also love my tears ricochet, mad woman, ivy, champagne problems, cowboy like me, evermore, gosh most of the tracks.
So yeah I really rate Taylor. But there's also no point in looking up and reading her lyrics out of context. They only work within the songs themselves as a whole.