to think Taylor Swift is our century's answer to William Shakespeare

[beastlyslumber]

She's such an incredible storyteller and lyricist (and her songs are ridiculously catchy. It's all about the hooks.) Listening to her album 'folkore' this afternoon - she wrote two whole albums in lockdown, you know. And they're both great, but 'folklore' is insanely good. As she moves away from autobiographical writing into character stories, her storytelling is getting even more emotionally direct, and even more fun. She's a total genius. Even on the rare occasions when her hooks and melodies don't grip you, her lyrics always get right to the heart of things.

If there's any justice in the world, Ms Swift will still be celebrated in 500 years for her original, moving, funny, perceptive and subversive writing.

YANBU = Obviously! She is the Bard of Pop
YABU = WTF? She's way better than Shakespeare

@Anonymous48

My husband and I took our daughters to a Taylor Swift concert when they were younger. It was quite a while ago - maybe 12 years ago at this point. I was impressed by her at the time, not expecting a whole lot. She is certainly a very talented musician, performer, and songwriter, and I give her a lot of credit.

This century's Shakespeare, though? That might be pushing it. Bob Dylan, maybe, who is actually a nobel laureate. (Although, perhaps that would be last century at this point!)

If you like Bob Dylan, you may really like Evermore and indeed Folklore before it. A few of the tracks have a distinctly Dylanesque feel. 'Betty' from Folklore starts with a harmonica which could be the start of a Dylan song.

@OhSister

Snap, Anonymous48 ! Cross post.

Also, ignore the random 'The' at the end of my post.

Except you said it more eloquently than I did!

Taylor is a phenomenal storyteller/songwriter.

Not sure if she will go down in history as one of the greatest of all time, but in my opinion she is certainly the greatest in her generation. Alot of the dismissiveness of her stems from snobbery and sexism.

For those who don't know she has also written poetry, here is a favourite section of mine from "If You're Anything Like Me"
If you're anything like me
You've grown to hate your pride
To love your thighs
And no amount of friends at 25
Will fill the empty seats
At the lunch tables of your past
The teams that picked you last...
But Darling, you keep trying.

If you're anything like me,
You couldn't recognize the face of your love
Until they stripped you of your shiny paint
Threw your victory flag away
And you saw the ones who wanted you anyway...
Darling, later on you will thank your stars
for that frightful day.

If you're anything like me,
I'm sorry.

But Darling, it's going to be okay.

If you like Bob Dylan, you may really like Evermore and indeed Folklore before it. A few of the tracks have a distinctly Dylanesque feel. 'Betty' from Folklore starts with a harmonica which could be the start of a Dylan song.

Did I say I liked Dylan? I just said that if any popular musician could be compared to Shakespeare it would be him at this point rather than Taylor Swift.

As I said, she very much impressed me and she is very talented. That doesn't mean I want to listen to her music.

beastly according to Aaron Dressner, Taylor was intentionally going for a sound somewhere between 'Freewheelin' and 'John Wesley Harding' on 'Betty'. I think she succeeded in that - it reminds me of 'Don't Think Twice, It's Alright.'

@OhSister

Taylor Swift is insanely talented and an excellent songwriter.

I hope that she has a half century or more of artistic expression still ahead of her, during which she continues to grow, experiment, change, reinvent herself and her art, draw on tradition while remaining ever innovative, and influence her contemporaries and all who come after.

She may or may not do all that. Bob Dylan already has, though. He's our Shakespeare.

The

I do love Dylan. Blood on the Tracks is one of my all-time favourite albums. It's a whole world of its own. I love that. Rumours by Fleetwood Mac is another album that has that quality, of being a unique world to itself.

We are overrun with Shakespeares!

@OhSister

beastly according to Aaron Dressner, Taylor was intentionally going for a sound somewhere between 'Freewheelin' and 'John Wesley Harding' on 'Betty'. I think she succeeded in that - it reminds me of 'Don't Think Twice, It's Alright.'

Ooh yeah, I can see that. I love that song.

I've never been a huge Taylor fan until Folklore and I fell in love. Exile is my imaginary break up song for the day I hopefully never need one.

Folklore has been on a constant rotation here for the past year and some of her older music thrown in too.

@Anonymous48

If you like Bob Dylan, you may really like Evermore and indeed Folklore before it. A few of the tracks have a distinctly Dylanesque feel. 'Betty' from Folklore starts with a harmonica which could be the start of a Dylan song.

Did I say I liked Dylan? I just said that if any popular musician could be compared to Shakespeare it would be him at this point rather than Taylor Swift.

As I said, she very much impressed me and she is very talented. That doesn't mean I want to listen to her music.

I'm sorry for misunderstanding!

But I already have compared Taylor Swift to Shakespeare so it's too late to say it can't happen

as someone mentioned shake it off - from pop sonnets

There is such snobbery around pop music. But ironically most brilliant pop music isn't about intellectual lyrics - think about some of the best Beatles songs- and some of the most well known 'alternative' music is influenced heavily by pop music. Kurt cobain was a huge ABBA fan for example .
Many Motown songs and girl bands of the early 60s are now seen as classic songs and pieces of art but it would be easy to pick a random lyric out of many of those songs and scoff at it.
You definitely can't judge Taylor swift's talent on a few lines of shake it off.

OP it's pretty impressive that you spotted the Dylan influence on 'Betty' without having to read about it first (unlike myself)! Here's the article it's mentioned in www.vulture.com/2020/07/taylor-swift-folklore-aaron-dessner-breaks-down-every-song.html

I agree that Taylor Swift is great, and Fleetwood Mac too. Also love Paul Heaton and others, mentioned upthread.

But in our lifetimes thus far, only Bob is comparable to the Bard.

Dr Dre, yeah. Ice-T. They’re the equivalent of Wordsworth.

@onceandneveragain

as someone mentioned shake it off - from pop sonnets

THAT IS GENIUS! Love it! And love that they kept the "this sick beat"

I've only skim read the thread, has anyone mentioned Dar Williams yet?

Try her "holly tree", "It's alright", "blue light of the flame", "when I was a boy". Amazing storytelling in beautiful song. I think she's amazing.

I mean she's OK but she's no Hozier

@OhSister

OP it's pretty impressive that you spotted the Dylan influence on 'Betty' without having to read about it first (unlike myself)! Here's the article it's mentioned in www.vulture.com/2020/07/taylor-swift-folklore-aaron-dessner-breaks-down-every-song.html

I agree that Taylor Swift is great, and Fleetwood Mac too. Also love Paul Heaton and others, mentioned upthread.

But in our lifetimes thus far, only Bob is comparable to the Bard.

Ooh thanks for the link. Will have a read.

As for Bob versus Taylor, I think the only thing for it is a Bard-off! Or maybe a collaboration.

Also, I mean, what's your view on Leonard Cohen? Tom Waits? I feel like there are multiple Bard.

@beastlyslumber I totally agree with you, I think she's incredible and has got better and better.

I adored Red and thought she'd never top it but she keeps managing it.

My favourite track from Reputation is Getaway car, I just love it so much.
I love screaming along to that in the car.

Death by a thousand cuts from Lover just sums up that lost, sad, lonely feeling so well.
Do you know the story? So there's a film called Someone Great and were inspired by a Swift track to write the film. Swift then saw the film which inspired Death by a thousand cuts. I love that.

She writes about love and heartbreak so so beautifully and often makes me cry.

I loved Folklore immediately when it came out and wasn't keen on Evermore but it's been a real slow burner and now I adore it. Champagne Problems, Ivy and Long Story Short are my favourites.

Fucking Covid stopped me seeing her last year. I feel sad for her that she didn't get to tour Lover, can you imagine the stage set. The visuals would have been stunning.

LOL at the number of people using Shake It Off and WANEGBT to prove OP wrong. I guess Lennon & McCartney were shit because they wrote dross like Yellow Submarine.

I think she’s fantastic. Some of her lyrics are just brilliant, even more so when you consider the age at which she wrote them eg All Too Well.

You might find this interesting OP

www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/taylor-swift-songs-ranked-rob-sheffield-201800/

'Cause I knew you
Steppin' on the last train
Marked me like a bloodstain, I
I knew you
Tried to change the ending
Peter losing Wendy, I
I knew you
Leavin' like a father
Running like water

Excuse me!!!! A GENIUS and I will not hear otherwise I could go on all night, I really could

@Frankii

I've only skim read the thread, has anyone mentioned Dar Williams yet?

Try her "holly tree", "It's alright", "blue light of the flame", "when I was a boy". Amazing storytelling in beautiful song. I think she's amazing.

Nope - but I'll add it to my list of recommendations to look for on spotify, thanks

I also really love Seinabo Sey, if anyone else is adding names to their list of modern PopBards.

Ooh and I have to say Benjamin Clementine too. He is something very special indeed.

Bum, I voted and don't agree with either, either.

Death by a thousand cuts from Lover just sums up that lost, sad, lonely feeling so well. Do you know the story? So there's a film called Someone Great and were inspired by a Swift track to write the film. Swift then saw the film which inspired Death by a thousand cuts. I love that.

I did not know that @stillonthattightrope but I love it too! And what a shame you missed out on seeing her Lover live! Bet it would have been insane.

Also, re the last two albums, I just can't get over how beautiful they are. The arrangements are delicate and understated. Her vocals are incredible. I really really love folky, indie Taylor.

It also made me laugh that lots of the snarky indie boys really struggled with her work with The National and Bon Iver. 😄

Oh man.

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄