to think Taylor Swift is our century's answer to William Shakespeare

[beastlyslumber]

She's such an incredible storyteller and lyricist (and her songs are ridiculously catchy. It's all about the hooks.) Listening to her album 'folkore' this afternoon - she wrote two whole albums in lockdown, you know. And they're both great, but 'folklore' is insanely good. As she moves away from autobiographical writing into character stories, her storytelling is getting even more emotionally direct, and even more fun. She's a total genius. Even on the rare occasions when her hooks and melodies don't grip you, her lyrics always get right to the heart of things.

If there's any justice in the world, Ms Swift will still be celebrated in 500 years for her original, moving, funny, perceptive and subversive writing.

YANBU = Obviously! She is the Bard of Pop
YABU = WTF? She's way better than Shakespeare

@OhSister

I think 'Shake It Off' has some good lyrics, actually. For an artist with a massive fan base among tween and teen girls and young women, I think a song about learning to give less of a shit about what others might think and say about you, is pretty great.

I never miss a beat
I'm lightning on my feet
And that's what they don't see
That's what they don't see

I'm dancing on my own
I make the moves up as I go
And that's what they don't know
That's what they don't know

Always puts me in mind of dd, and of my own former self, and of many young girls I have known, shy and awkward and self conscious in public, but blasting the music and dancing and singing into the hairbrush behind the safety of the bedroom door, away from judging eyes. And what's more, asserting that the confident, dancing self making the moves up on your own is the cool person you actually are, and the fault is with the haters (gonna hate hate hate) for the fact that they don't see and don't know how awesome you are. It's their problem, fuck 'em. I think it's quite moving and I enjoy when dd sings along with it in the car.

^This. Absolute banger of an empowering tune Also love the Rock unashamedly doing a lip sync battle to this exact song. I also agree about Eminem. He's a poet.

Personally I think "The Man" is the best song that I have ever heard in my whole life. And the video is perfect!

I also quite like "bad blood " yes I went through my 20 years friendship ending in a horrible way ! So amazing she can put it into words!

I do think she's a little bit like Pink.

Personally my own family are extremely musical, they are also very man orientaded......so sad that they will never hear this beautiful music....but if Taylor was a man.....omg she would be so celebrated today!!!!

Very annoying. My extremely musical talents family, I know for sure will laugh at me liking Taylor..... I 100% guarantee that if Taylor was a man they would adore her. My BROTHERS laugh at my musical. My mother sticks with them on this because she literally has no choice but to conform to the patriarchal society 😢😢😢

For anyone who is scared of leaving abusive boyfriend and staring again......here's one for you.....

There is something mildly enraging about people dismissing something you know is good without even listening to it due to their own snobbery. Remember as a teen a school friends extremely pompous father saying all popular music is rubbish only classical music is worth listening to. So everything from the Beatles Stones REM to Taylor Swift all dismissed. I concluded from that he was abit of a knob !

@MsTSwift but they're just people's opinions. It's not always about snobbery, just different musical tastes. Something you know is good sounds almost evangelical, and as if your opinion is the only one that matters. Why can't all these ridiculous snobs agree with you? They mustn't have listened to it or they would be converted by now. My SIL is like that about her religious beliefs. Your opinion is no more the default than anyone else's.

People do seem to get very passionate about what music they like and don't like. DP listens to a much broader range of music than I do. Some of it I love. But some of it annoys me so much I have to be somewhere I can't hear it. It's not bad music (well ok, it is) - I feel a visceral reaction to music I don't like, particularly voices I don't like.

They mustn't have listened to it or they would be converted by now.

Plenty of them have made it clear that they're basing it on one or two songs.

Of course people are entitled to their opinions as am I. Someone too snooty to listen to anything but classical and to say any music that isn’t classical is rubbish is not someone I will ever want to spend much time with!

[quote NotAnotherPylon]**@MsTSwift* but they're just people's opinions. It's not always about snobbery, just different musical tastes. Something you know is good* sounds almost evangelical, and as if your opinion is the only one that matters. Why can't all these ridiculous snobs agree with you? They mustn't have listened to it or they would be converted by now. My SIL is like that about her religious beliefs. Your opinion is no more the default than anyone else's.

People do seem to get very passionate about what music they like and don't like. DP listens to a much broader range of music than I do. Some of it I love. But some of it annoys me so much I have to be somewhere I can't hear it. It's not bad music (well ok, it is) - I feel a visceral reaction to music I don't like, particularly voices I don't like.[/quote]
I don't think anyone is annoyed people don't like her music, it's the attitudes of those reading the name of the thread and joining just to add some snarky comment.

If someone doesn't like her music, or disagrees with the OP, fair enough. I think the patronising and rude comments like "what age are you, 10???", or "is there a vomit emoji" are the problem. Why can't someone just be like nope not a fan, she's not for me then go on their merry way. Instead they feel the need to voice their opinions in such a shitty way, like why?? I just don't get it

Some people commented about the songwriters they think are better than TS or who they would happily compare to Shakespeare. That was cool, too.

@OhSister

I think 'Shake It Off' has some good lyrics, actually. For an artist with a massive fan base among tween and teen girls and young women, I think a song about learning to give less of a shit about what others might think and say about you, is pretty great.

I never miss a beat
I'm lightning on my feet
And that's what they don't see
That's what they don't see

I'm dancing on my own
I make the moves up as I go
And that's what they don't know
That's what they don't know

Always puts me in mind of dd, and of my own former self, and of many young girls I have known, shy and awkward and self conscious in public, but blasting the music and dancing and singing into the hairbrush behind the safety of the bedroom door, away from judging eyes. And what's more, asserting that the confident, dancing self making the moves up on your own is the cool person you actually are, and the fault is with the haters (gonna hate hate hate) for the fact that they don't see and don't know how awesome you are. It's their problem, fuck 'em. I think it's quite moving and I enjoy when dd sings along with it in the car.

Totally agree with this! It's a lovely song to assert a bit of self-confidence in the face of criticism and judgement.

Hi there,
My wife drew my attention to this post. This is my first Mumsnet post. Felt compelled to sign up just to say:

No.
Wrong.
She's better than Shakespeare.

(which still feels strange to say as my usual listening material is grunge, Smashing Pumpkins, Nine Inch Nails, Twenty One Pilots, etc).

To which the usual retort is "Oh, well, you just fancy her", but nope: it's all about the music. There's been a couple of rough albums (rep and Lover were pretty crap, let's be honest), but Folklore and Evermore were incredible.

Nearly time for Red: Taylor's Edition!

@NotAnotherPylon

Some Taylor Swift fans appear to be delicate little flowers. OP has posted this on AIBU. There are going to be pithy comments and low flying insults.

Taylor Swift was prancing around on my telly box a few years ago singing 'I shake it off (whoo-hoo-hoo)'. And it was awful. I haven't the time or inclination to listen to her entire back catalogue to find something I might relate to. Some posters have kindly quoted a few of her lyrics to save me the bother. It hasn't helped. It doesn't mean I think I'm better than anyone else or a 'towering intellect'. I just can't be arsed trying to make myself like Taylor Swift.

Truly nobody cares whether you personally like Taylor Swift. What’s irritating is people who have heard one song posting to say ‘you’re wrong, she’s crap.’, as though the fact that they didn’t like Shake it Off is incontrovertible proof that Swift is a bad songwriter.

By all means post to say ‘I don’t like the one song I know, so imo she isn’t better than shakespeare’. Don’t come on (like so many posters have) making sneering comments, or suggesting that OP must be a bit simple minded because she rates TS so highly.

You guys will LOVE this -

'You kept me like a secret but I kept you like an oath'
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

The idea you had of me
Who was she?
A never-needy, ever lovely jewel
Whose shine reflects on you
Not weeping in a party bathroom
Some actress asking me what happened
You
That’s what happened: you

You, who charmed my dad with self-effacing jokes
Sipping coffee like you were on a late night show
But then he watched me watch the front door all night willing you to come
And he said “it’s supposed to be fun…
Turning 21”

So what do we all think of Taylor’s version of Red?

I agree TS is great and I love the control she keeps over her career. She's remarkable.

But Lin-Manuel Miranda is my modern Shakespeare. The wordplay is joyful, I never get tired of it.

She is insanely talented. I think she's wonderful The Miss Americana documentary on Netflix is really fascinating.

"and I was never good at telling jokes, but the punch line goes
I'll get older, but your lovers stay my age"

Ouch!

Big fan of the new Red album. Some of the songs really suit her more matured voice! Especially The Last Time with Gary Lightbody, new appreciation for it!

‘Loving him was like driving a new Maserati down a dead end street’

Genius. (Haven’t heard Red TV yet as can’t seem to get it on itunes. Am dying to listen.)

@Doomscrolling

I agree TS is great and I love the control she keeps over her career. She's remarkable.

But Lin-Manuel Miranda is my modern Shakespeare. The wordplay is joyful, I never get tired of it.

I agree with this too, he is wonderful

"It's supposed to be fun, turning 21"

Looking forward to watching the all too well short film too.