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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think Taylor Swift is our century's answer to William Shakespeare

511 replies

beastlyslumber · 28/10/2021 16:01

She's such an incredible storyteller and lyricist (and her songs are ridiculously catchy. It's all about the hooks.) Listening to her album 'folkore' this afternoon - she wrote two whole albums in lockdown, you know. And they're both great, but 'folklore' is insanely good. As she moves away from autobiographical writing into character stories, her storytelling is getting even more emotionally direct, and even more fun. She's a total genius. Even on the rare occasions when her hooks and melodies don't grip you, her lyrics always get right to the heart of things.

If there's any justice in the world, Ms Swift will still be celebrated in 500 years for her original, moving, funny, perceptive and subversive writing.

YANBU = Obviously! She is the Bard of Pop
YABU = WTF? She's way better than Shakespeare

OP posts:
MsTSwift · 31/10/2021 08:54

Taylor is way better than Billy Joel or Jarvis cocker. I think there’s a lot of sexism - older men revered younger women less so. She’s way more than her catchy pop hits - which are fun for what they are.

wotsitsandwine · 31/10/2021 08:55

@RAFHercules

YABVU That crown belongs to Jarvis Cocker, but I've been saying for a long time that Stormzy is a poet (if you ignore the misogyny).
Yes, let's all turn a blind eye to misogyny. Excellent idea.
Sparklingbrook · 31/10/2021 08:58

@MsTSwift

Taylor is way better than Billy Joel or Jarvis cocker. I think there’s a lot of sexism - older men revered younger women less so. She’s way more than her catchy pop hits - which are fun for what they are.
Sounds like we need a list in order of who can be best compared to William Shakespeare. Grin
Silenceisgolden20 · 31/10/2021 08:59

@TrishM80

If, in half a millennium from now, "haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, shake it off, shake it off, du du du, shake it off, shake it off" has replaced King Lear, MacBeth and Julius Caesar on the school curriculum, then yes I'll agree with you.
Grin love it
Silenceisgolden20 · 31/10/2021 09:01

@wotsitsandwine then we would have to disagree on what counts as rude then.

DrSbaitso · 31/10/2021 09:01

@RAFHercules

YABVU That crown belongs to Jarvis Cocker, but I've been saying for a long time that Stormzy is a poet (if you ignore the misogyny).
Ignoring the misogyny is what has made it so mainstream and acceptable.

If Stormzy can't write decently without shitting on women, he's badly limited even if he's good at rhymes and beats.

Silenceisgolden20 · 31/10/2021 09:02

You can love whatever singer you want, I do.
But comparing to a playwright that is studied in schools is just bonkers.

wotsitsandwine · 31/10/2021 09:05

[quote Silenceisgolden20]@wotsitsandwine then we would have to disagree on what counts as rude then.[/quote]
We do indeed.

MsTSwift · 31/10/2021 09:09

At the time Shakespeare was considered entertainment for the masses.

Ian McEwans novel Atonement will be on the English a level syllabus next year I read that a few years ago as just a novel to enjoy on holiday but looks like over time it will be elevated to a book “studied in school”. These things evolve and often takes time for the value to be appreciated. All those artists who died penniless and now their work is priceless!

wotsitsandwine · 31/10/2021 09:16

To me, Shakespeare was a storyteller. As someone who has listened to her music for 13 years, TS is also a storyteller. Do I find it easier to relate to the stories TS tells? 100%.

I'm not saying TS should be studied in school, however I have to admit I can see Shakespeare being replaced.

Original poster
beastlyslumber · 31/10/2021 09:16

@Silenceisgolden20

Oh yeah, I did scroll and got bored tbh. My bad. Than I'm ven more flabbergasted on this. Jesus you must be a young teacher?
If you were bored, why get involved in the conversation? Might have been better to get involved in a conversation you're interested in? Just a thought.

Not that it's any of your business, but I've been teaching for more than three decades. I've written books and won awards for my teaching and writing.

OP posts:
Silenceisgolden20 · 31/10/2021 09:18

Winning awards doesn't mean you know better than anyone else's opinion on TS though. Just saying.

wotsitsandwine · 31/10/2021 09:19

@Silenceisgolden20

Winning awards doesn't mean you know better than anyone else's opinion on TS though. Just saying.
Did she say she did?
Original poster
beastlyslumber · 31/10/2021 09:19

@MsTSwift

Why thank you 😁.

We LOVE her. Kids listened to her we eye rolled then realised her stuff is properly good. Saw her in concert as a family on the Reputation tour dd still says it was “the best night of my life”.

Her lyrics in some songs are great for early teens friendship issues. We listen to Best Day and Mean loudly when dd2 previous friendship group suddenly turned on her - it definitely helped that someone like TS had been through a similar thing.

Ah lovely of you to comment! Grin

I feel like there's a TS song for pretty much every person and any occasion.

OP posts:
Silenceisgolden20 · 31/10/2021 09:20

Ok, not biting, Ive said this is bonkers so leave you guys to it

Original poster
beastlyslumber · 31/10/2021 09:22

@Silenceisgolden20 I feel like maybe you should try and live up to your name.

OP posts:
Whinge · 31/10/2021 09:22

I feel like there's a TS song for pretty much every person and any occasion.

I agree with that. She has a huge library of songs, and there's something for almost anyone.

Sparklingbrook · 31/10/2021 09:24

@Silenceisgolden20

Ok, not biting, Ive said this is bonkers so leave you guys to it
This thread has been a bit like being back at school at times, Everyone keeps getting told off. Grin

It’s an AIBU about pop music.

Whinge · 31/10/2021 09:26

This thread has been a bit like being back at school at times

I agree, where else would you hear insults like How old are you, 10???

Sparklingbrook · 31/10/2021 09:29

Nearer the start of the thread I got a ‘I’m surprised at you’ Grin

Very school like. I imagine a lot of us will be in detention soon.

Original poster
beastlyslumber · 31/10/2021 09:30

@wotsitsandwine

To me, Shakespeare was a storyteller. As someone who has listened to her music for 13 years, TS is also a storyteller. Do I find it easier to relate to the stories TS tells? 100%.

I'm not saying TS should be studied in school, however I have to admit I can see Shakespeare being replaced.

I've taught some of TS's work to my students. They start off very sceptical and by the end of the class they're like, omg, she's a genius! I don't think it has to be Shakespeare or Taylor Swift - I love both and think they are both massively entertaining.

Shakespeare was indeed a storyteller and his work was often intended as entertainment for the masses. A lot of it is very funny and a bit stupid. He has moments of sublime beauty and also fart jokes and sexual innuendo. I think people find the language less accessible now, but a good production will reveal his wit and the beauty of his writing. TS is way more accessible to a modern audience, for sure.

OP posts:
Original poster
beastlyslumber · 31/10/2021 09:31

@Sparklingbrook

Nearer the start of the thread I got a ‘I’m surprised at you’ Grin

Very school like. I imagine a lot of us will be in detention soon.

Oh no, you're definitely free to go Grin
OP posts:
Sparklingbrook · 31/10/2021 09:39

Oh no, you're definitely free to go
What and miss out on an education? 😮

DrSbaitso · 31/10/2021 09:42

@Silenceisgolden20

Winning awards doesn't mean you know better than anyone else's opinion on TS though. Just saying.
And hating TS doesn't make you a towering intellectual, especially if you aren't actually familiar with 95% of her work. What's your point?
MsTSwift · 31/10/2021 09:49

It’s good to be open to new stuff. I sneered at TS years ago then I actually listened to her stuff and it’s really good. Try to take same approach to teens music / books yes some of it really is rubbish but most of it genuinely good