to think Taylor Swift is our century's answer to William Shakespeare

[beastlyslumber]

She's such an incredible storyteller and lyricist (and her songs are ridiculously catchy. It's all about the hooks.) Listening to her album 'folkore' this afternoon - she wrote two whole albums in lockdown, you know. And they're both great, but 'folklore' is insanely good. As she moves away from autobiographical writing into character stories, her storytelling is getting even more emotionally direct, and even more fun. She's a total genius. Even on the rare occasions when her hooks and melodies don't grip you, her lyrics always get right to the heart of things.

If there's any justice in the world, Ms Swift will still be celebrated in 500 years for her original, moving, funny, perceptive and subversive writing.

YANBU = Obviously! She is the Bard of Pop
YABU = WTF? She's way better than Shakespeare

Also I did study Eminem in English lit at school! We did the lyrics from Lose Yourself as part of poetry. The amount of techniques stuffed in just a few lines is astounding, Seamus Heaney who.

@ScienceSensibility

Oh don’t be so fucking ridiculous. Taylor Swift?

Jesus H Christ.

I'm assuming with such a strong, opinionated reaction, you've listened to every single song of hers?

Reading some of the replies here and it is honestly so cringeworthy. How on earth has a thread about someone loving Taylor swift's songwriting riled people up so much they feel the need to reply so violently. I can't imagine seeing a thread about any artist and feeling the need to rip the OP to shreds about it, music snobs are literally the absolute WORST. Surely they know they just make themselves sound like absolute tw*ts?!

I really enjoy Taylor Swift. Often genuinely amazed at her lyrics, and the talent she has. She tends to release her more catchy music to chart, but majority of her fans favourites will usually be album tracks she hasn't released. I know a few "taylor haters" who are now fans due to Folklore. They may not like her older stuff but would openly admit that Folklore is so incredibly well written and made.

Perhaps it's an age thing. As a 30 year old I find a lot of her lyrics relatable hence my admiration. 'Marjorie' is so beautifully written and makes me tear up anytime I hear it.

Tea "music snobs are literally the absolute WORST. Surely they know they just make themselves sound like absolute tw*ts?! "

With some
Indie record that's MUCH cooler than mine

I think we should squeeze in as many Taylor lyrics as we can today!

Re age, I think she has a big demographic in my age group - 45.

I don't know about you
But I'm feeling 22 😂

If someone started a thread about Ed Sheeran, I'd not say anything because I know two songs. Even though he has a Big Reputation

How many songs would you have to know to be allowed to post on a thread about a certain artist though? You have to listen to all their albums first then post a reply?
If you’d only heard a handful of their hits then that’s not enough?

@Sparklingbrook

If someone started a thread about Ed Sheeran, I'd not say anything because I know two songs. Even though he has a Big Reputation

How many songs would you have to know to be allowed to post on a thread about a certain artist though? You have to listen to all their albums first then post a reply?
If you’d only heard a handful of their hits then that’s not enough?

A handful So like 5?

No. I'd sit it out.

Maybe if I had some positive comments..for example, I don't know how many albums Sam Fender has..l do know that the Borders is one of my absolute top songs of recent years, I think it's wonderful.

But I wouldn't say "oh I hate his work" if I had heard a handful and didn't like them.

Reading some of the replies here and it is honestly so cringeworthy. How on earth has a thread about someone loving Taylor Swift's song-writing riled people up so much they feel the need to reply so violently. I can't imagine seeing a thread about any artist and feeling the need to rip the OP to shreds about it, music snobs are literally the absolute WORST. Surely they know they just make themselves sound like absolute tw^ts?!

Agree @TeaTime27 ^ The music snobbery on here is hilarious. 'Oh I haven't even heard of Taylor Swift' and 'her music is shite, 'shake it off' is such a bland piece of garbage, she is crap!' Then they proceed to list a number of random non-commercial acts who most of us plebs haven't heard of, because we're just not COOL, because we like Taylor Swift . 🙄

These are the same type who look down their nose at people who watch Love Island/Britains Got Talent/Big Brother, or who go to McDonalds. Utter UTTER snobbery.

Some TS haters are raving about Amy Winehouse, and quite rightly so because she was brilliant. However, had she not died (God rest her Soul,) and had gone on to have a dozen more major hits, and 3 or 4 more great albums, you can bet she would be slated too. For being 'too commercial.'

And I also don't buy the 'never heard of her' claims either. What rot. They are the same as the individuals on twitter right now, claiming they have never heard of Zayn Malik and GiGi Hadid after their recent split . Come off it. Nobody believes you.

@DaisyNGO

With some indie record that's MUCH cooler than mine!

@Sparklingbrook

If someone started a thread about Ed Sheeran, I'd not say anything because I know two songs. Even though he has a Big Reputation

How many songs would you have to know to be allowed to post on a thread about a certain artist though? You have to listen to all their albums first then post a reply?
If you’d only heard a handful of their hits then that’s not enough?

You don't need to know her entire discography, but to make sweeping statements, like some have on this thread, I think you need to be somewhat familiar with a wide range of her body of work. It's hard to put a number on it, but she had 9 full length studio albums, my Taylor Swift playlist has almost 200 different songs on there.

It would be like me going to Venice, not liking it, and saying that all of Italy is over crowded, and smelly, and expensive, and unfriendly... That might be my experience of Venice, but would be unfair to presume that applies to the whole of Italy.

This isn't to say that no-one can criticise her, or has to like her music, by it's nature it is subjective. But disparaging comments are made here from a place pure ignorance about her work.

@DaisyNGO

Tea "music snobs are literally the absolute WORST. Surely they know they just make themselves sound like absolute tw*ts?! "

With some
Indie record that's MUCH cooler than mine

I think we should squeeze in as many Taylor lyrics as we can today!

Re age, I think she has a big demographic in my age group - 45.

I don't know about you
But I'm feeling 22 😂

Haha loving the lyrics, very apt!!

It's always an indie record isn't it

To all the music snobs out there, you need to calm down, you're being too loud

One of my fave songs of TS is The Best Day. (From the album 'Fearless...) She was in her early teens (I think) when she wrote that. It's so good. About her mother, and how she comforted her when she was being bullied at school, and having a hard time, and how she took her out for lovely day trips to cheer her up. Makes me cry every time I hear it.

@LittleDandelionClock oh don't get me started on people who feel the need to reply to things on Twitter etc with "can't be that famous, I've never heard of them" or "must be slow news day. I've never heard of them", well good for you! Every time I see someone write it I assume that of course they know who the person is and they're just being obnoxious. Surely if you seen an article about a famous person who you genuinely never heard of, you wouldn't waste your time writing anything, you'd just scroll on past.

[quote TeaTime27]@LittleDandelionClock oh don't get me started on people who feel the need to reply to things on Twitter etc with "can't be that famous, I've never heard of them" or "must be slow news day. I've never heard of them", well good for you! Every time I see someone write it I assume that of course they know who the person is and they're just being obnoxious. Surely if you seen an article about a famous person who you genuinely never heard of, you wouldn't waste your time writing anything, you'd just scroll on past. [/quote]
Exactly! It's like these individuals who go on to fan pages to slate the celebrity. I dislike a few celebrities, but I don't go onto their fan pages berating them (and their fans!) Nor do I go on twitter - or mumsnet - to blather on about how I don't even know this person. And as IF someone has never heard of Taylor Swift. As I said, no-one believes you!!!

As you said, it's just a way to say 'I do not KNOW this really famous person, therefore I am much better than you, for I do not follow modern and popular trends...'

"They are the same as the individuals on twitter right now, claiming they have never heard of Zayn Malik and GiGi Hadid after their recent split . Come off it. Nobody believes you."

I believe them. I only know who Zayn Malik is because...Taylor Swift made a record with him.

I often get comments from friends who can't believe I don't know xyz person.

I find the world very overwhelming so believe it or not, I hide from media as much as I can.

I'm only on here all day yesterday and today because I took some annual leave and we are waiting to hear back on a flat.

So "like, who is Taylor Swift anyway?" 😂 actually is believable to me.

I don't understand slating a band, actor, writer etc when you know very little of their work.

Zayn Malik wasn’t he One Direction but did a Robbie Williams? Gigi Hadid-model?

This isn't to say that no-one can criticise her, or has to like her music, by it's nature it is subjective

I think that’s the thing. It’s rare to like every song or lyric that an artist puts out there even if a massive fan.

Depending on where you are in your life songs can speak to you or leave you cold too.

I think posters who call others music snobs are saying more about themselves than the people who, after all, are only engaging with the OP's claim that Taylor Swift is the modern Shakespeare. If you call someone a music snob for disagreeing with or being critical of your preferences, then it seems to me that you have a chip on your shoulder and that you don't quite have the courage of your convictions. Why aren't YOU the music snob for loving Taylor Swift I wonder?

Anyway, when I was younger I'd have made the same claim about Kate Bush or Tori Amos (except I'd have been right)

I think posters who call others music snobs are saying more about themselves than the people who, after all, are only engaging with the OP's claim that Taylor Swift is the modern Shakespeare. If you call someone a music snob for disagreeing with or being critical of your preferences, then it seems to me that you have a chip on your shoulder and that you don't quite have the courage of your convictions. Why aren't YOU the music snob for loving Taylor Swift I wonder?

It’s one thing to disagree, it’s another thing entirely to pick one song from the god knows how many she’s written and use it as evidence that she’s rubbish, without bothering to listen to anything else.

Or indeed, to call people who enjoy her music simple minded, which is just an insult.

I don’t like all her songs and I’m not sure about the Shakespeare comparison, but even if I hated her music I’d still be able to acknowledge that she’s extremely talented.

@ClinkeyMonkey

I think posters who call others music snobs are saying more about themselves than the people who, after all, are only engaging with the OP's claim that Taylor Swift is the modern Shakespeare. If you call someone a music snob for disagreeing with or being critical of your preferences, then it seems to me that you have a chip on your shoulder and that you don't quite have the courage of your convictions. Why aren't YOU the music snob for loving Taylor Swift I wonder?

Anyway, when I was younger I'd have made the same claim about Kate Bush or Tori Amos (except I'd have been right)

I disagree. The people I would refer to as music snobs, would be someone likely to scoff "taylor swift? Ha!" type of thing, without ever having actually listened to Taylor Swift. To me, I'd classify that as looking down your nose at something. Hence the music snob term.

Many of my friends are like this! To be honest, they wouldn't even care about being referred to as a music snob, as they genuinely believe their music taste to be superior as it isn't commercial so they would be like yes thanks, happy to be a music snob.

I'm a Taylor Swift fan (can you tell?) and there are some of her songs that I dislike, or think are a bit rubbish. Her music isn't for everyone, I 100% agree with that. It's the attitude of people who dismiss her purely based on 1 song, or even just her reputation. She's too popular or whatever. Or young kids like her music, so therefore cannot be taken seriously.

There are a million and one artists I don't know, or listen to. But I'd never feel the need to make fun of someone's music tastes because they like someone I don't. It's that attitude that I don't understand.

I've listened to the Evermore album off the back of this thread. It was okay but I found it a bit samey. I expected more since it seems to be the one she's getting critical acclaim for. It sounds like more of what she's always done, songs that are very reminiscent of 90s singers like Sarah McLachlan and Heather Nova.

I have nothing against her though and like when people are passionate about music and artists.

I'm sure Swift will be kicking around for a long time to come.

@StrychnineInTheSandwiches

I've listened to the Evermore album off the back of this thread. It was okay but I found it a bit samey. I expected more since it seems to be the one she's getting critical acclaim for. It sounds like more of what she's always done, songs that are very reminiscent of 90s singers like Sarah McLachlan and Heather Nova.

I have nothing against her though and like when people are passionate about music and artists.

I'm sure Swift will be kicking around for a long time to come.

Even as a fan, it took me a few listens to Evermore before anything stood out to me. Evermore feels a bit more personal, however the story telling in Folklore had me hooked instantly! Likely due to the timing, mid pandemic, easy listening was just what I needed!

@StrychnineInTheSandwiches

I've listened to the Evermore album off the back of this thread. It was okay but I found it a bit samey. I expected more since it seems to be the one she's getting critical acclaim for. It sounds like more of what she's always done, songs that are very reminiscent of 90s singers like Sarah McLachlan and Heather Nova.

I have nothing against her though and like when people are passionate about music and artists.

I'm sure Swift will be kicking around for a long time to come.

It's interesting isn't it

I find it very different to her usual work
As a whole, I found it samey too

I really don't know what gets more critical acclaim as I pay no attention to that. But there's so many things at play with critical acclaim, sadly.

I will make my own pointless criticism. I don't feel I am being kept up to date with Taylor's cats 😂 They're probably busy. Or Benjamin grew up and isn't cute any more ...

It’s rare to like every song or lyric that an artist puts out there even if a massive fan. Depending on where you are in your life songs can speak to you or leave you cold too.

Totally agree. I don't like everything TS has put out by any means. But what I do like, I LOVE and consider to be superb works of art. I do think she's a genius.

Even as a fan, it took me a few listens to Evermore before anything stood out to me. Evermore feels a bit more personal, however the story telling in Folklore had me hooked instantly! Likely due to the timing, mid pandemic, easy listening was just what I needed!

The timing of Folklore was so perfect. I remember a friend messaging me saying, hey do you know TS has put an album out? and it was like a little light went on in my life. It was in that dark time of lockdown where nothing was happening, and it felt like people were just quietly isolated and scared. I don't know, it was just perfect timing. And the album is so great. The 1 as an opener - immediately got into my head.

Really love that album because it has such a coherent feeling and atmosphere. Like I was saying before about Blood on the Tracks or Rumours, it's an album that has a whole unique world of its own.

Many of my friends are like this! To be honest, they wouldn't even care about being referred to as a music snob, as they genuinely believe their music taste to be superior as it isn't commercial so they would be like yes thanks, happy to be a music snob.

I used to think that "commercial" was an insult! That if something was commercial then it must be of low quality. But then I stopped being a teenager... Really I think it's quite a patronising view, isn't it? Insulting, really. It's like, this record has sold ten billion copies - what's more likely: that it's an amazing work of genius that has something to appeal to everyone? Or ten billion people are absolute idiots and I'm the only one with taste?

I always piss people off though, because I do listen to classical music, including modern music which can be quite obscure, and I listen to indie stuff, death metal, prog rock, hip hop, and pop, and probably every single genre of music there is. People who think I'm simple-minded because I like TS are a bit simple-minded themselves, to believe that we must all fit ourselves and our tastes into little boxes that represent our intellect and status. It doesn't work that way!

It's like, this record has sold ten billion copies - what's more likely: that it's an amazing work of genius that has something to appeal to everyone? Or ten billion people are absolute idiots and I'm the only one with taste?

I get what you're saying but on the other hand Jess Glynne, Geri Halliwell and Cheryl Cole are the most successful British female singers of all time (as in highest number of No.1 songs), so sales don't always indicate quality.

sales don't always indicate quality

That's true. And lack of sales don't indicate a lack of quality, either. But what I'm trying to say is "commercial" does not equal "low quality". Popular music being actually popular is kind of part of the deal

Having said that, I'm a bit horrified by those people being the most successful female artists when we've produced Amy Winehouse, Kate Bush, Adele, Bat for Lashes...!!! So maybe I need to rethink my stance! I haven't actually listened to any of these women's records, and have only barely heard of them so maybe I'm just way too old being unfair.