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AIBU?

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Original poster

When does 'overcrowded' become a safeguarding issue?

64 replies

DontBiteTheBoobThatFeedsYou · 26/10/2021 17:35

Officially speaking, rather than opinion?

Say if there was two adults, 8 children and pets in a small 2 bedroom flat?

This is anecdotal, I'm not talking about a friend or relative.

I've asked colleagues before and they never give me a straight answer.

Is it because it's never a safeguarding issue? Because it feels like it should be?

OP posts:
SeasonalNamechange · 26/10/2021 17:36

safeguarding against what?

CreepySpider · 26/10/2021 17:38

It will all be individual because it will also come down to the size of the property as well as ages.

You could contact your local council to ask if they have a specific formula for calculating it.

Blahdyblahbla · 26/10/2021 17:40

It would be surely be safeguarding if the children were at risk, I presume from neglect. If everyone had a bed, was able to get adequate sleep, had room to play or complete homework, and if there was no inappropriate bed sharing I don't think this would be taken as a safeguarding case.

Original poster
DontBiteTheBoobThatFeedsYou · 26/10/2021 17:41

@SeasonalNamechange

safeguarding against what?
Neglect.

If there isn't enough room for beds or to even sit on a sofa, or to use the bathroom when they need and more

OP posts:
OwlinaTree · 26/10/2021 17:42

I know of a family of 7 living in a two bed. Council offered to re house but would be in a different part of town and they'd have to move the kids school which they didn't want to do. So they managed, they weren't forced to move.

londonrach · 26/10/2021 17:43

It's not a safeguarding issue... overcrowding yes. Were you in a bigger property prior to the 2 bed flat as 8 children is alot of children to have in a 2 bed flat.

SeasonalNamechange · 26/10/2021 17:43

neglect? tell that to all the parents in b and b homeless accommodation then?

you are being ridiculous

neglect? i'm sure a social worker will enlighten you to what neglect actually looks like!

so come on, who is it? you clearly have an agenda here and are looking for ammunition...

rrhuth · 26/10/2021 17:44

Why are you asking? Clearly if there's no space to sit it is unsuitable, but you'd need dozens of people in a 2bed flat before you got to that stage.

Being poor and living in a house that is too small is not neglect.

FAQs · 26/10/2021 17:45

8 children and pets? In total or 2 children and 6 pets, what’s the ratio?

Elephantsparade · 26/10/2021 17:46

I am not sure that being crowded in itself is a safeguarding issue as long as its all clean, tidy and older boys werent sleeping with thier sisters.

NailsNeedDoing · 26/10/2021 17:46

I don’t think there can be a definitive answer to this. One of my parents was brought up as one of 8 in a 2 up 2 down, but they weren’t neglected.

cunningartificer · 26/10/2021 17:47

It might be an issue of deprivation rather than safeguarding, though as another poster has said neglect is a likely outcome of overcrowding, not to mention the stress on everyone.

But why do you ask? It’s an odd thing to know about anecdotally and sounds as though it may be “they shouldn’t have so many children/pets” without precise knowledge of circumstances.

Most councils won’t allow private landlords to have accommodation that’s so crowded—my MIL had to fight against making her lovely tenants homeless when they had a second child and wanted to stay in their flat which has two bedrooms because the second room was small—she had a real battle to get it reclassified though they felt it was roomy enough.

If you have proper information I think colleagues expert in safeguarding will give you a straight answer.

OnceuponaRainbow18 · 26/10/2021 17:48

@SeasonalNamechange

I don’t think it’s silly to question 8 people in a 2 bed flat, major overcrowding. As a DDSL it’s something I would be keeping my eye on and would raise it with the DSL.

Overcrowding is a risk factor for DV

Elephantsparade · 26/10/2021 17:48

By clean and tidy i mean not covered in cat feaces on the beds etc. I dont want to give the impression that normal messyness is neglectful

Goblina · 26/10/2021 17:49

Who in their right mind would have 8 kids if they lived in a tiny flat and couldn't afford a bigger property.

8 kids isn't a single contraception failure.

OnceuponaRainbow18 · 26/10/2021 17:50

@Goblina
Lots of people aren’t in “the right mind”

Stompythedinosaur · 26/10/2021 17:51

It is only neglect if the children's basic needs are not being met.

If they are being fed, are able to wash and have clean clothes (not necessarily daily), have somewhere safe to sleep (ideally a bed, but bed sharing is not uncommon) and are getting an education I don't think it would be neglect.

Russell19 · 26/10/2021 17:53

I thought you were on about overcrowding at a music venue or something and was thinking of safeguarding against crushing 🤦‍♀️ oooops.

Don't think a house can be a safety issue as the things you've described aren't dangerous, they're just inconvenient.

Original poster
DontBiteTheBoobThatFeedsYou · 26/10/2021 17:55

It isn't about anybody.

I've heard that it happens, from colleagues in my line of work (I'm a health care professional training to be a specialist but I'm very new to the role). When I posed the question to my colleagues they could never give a straight answer.

I was just asking in an idle way, I know there's sometimes people who work in safeguarding on here so figured they might know.

The shelter link is interesting, thank you.

OP posts:
worriedatthemoment · 26/10/2021 17:57

I think in that situation you would be unreasonable to have pets , it would be considered overcrowding if a council property but could only move if suitable place if privately owned up to them

stillonthattightrope · 26/10/2021 18:05

It's really not as simple as there being a clear definition or cut off point. Every case is different.
People assessing this will be considering:
How big is the space and how is it organised?
Does each child have somewhere clean and safe to sleep?
Is the home clean, safe and free from hazards?
Who is sharing with who? What are the ages and genders?
There could be a very well organised but small property where all the children's needs are being met which is preferable to a 4 bed house in squalor.
What else is going with the family, are there other concerns?
Is this accommodation permanent?

I would imagine that social workers and other professionals would be supporting families in severe overcrowding to be re housed if they're renting/already house by their LA or a HA.

Singinginshower · 26/10/2021 18:34

It's not safeguarding if that is the only issue. Would probably come under Child In Need, but in reality it's a housing issue, with lack of suitable properties in many areas.

picklemewalnuts · 26/10/2021 19:00

In my area a landlord has been told to issue an eviction notice because the house is overcrowded. The family have had more children than bedrooms, and the ages/sexes needing to share are inappropriate.

And it's a lot less crowded than your situation!

RavingAnnie · 26/10/2021 19:18

Here's the legal definition of overcrowding:

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housingadvice/repairs/checkkifyourrhomeissovercrowdedbyylaw