To not want to freeze my eggs?

[Goodvibes12]

I'm 35 (nearly 36) and have just got out of a horrible relationship. I'm enjoying being free of it and single again but worried about the future. I feel really ambivalent about children, and swing between really wanting them to feeling pretty OK or even happy about the idea of not having them.

Lots of my single friends of similar ages are thinking about freezing their eggs. I hate the idea: the expense, the low chances of success, the indignity of basically having to go through the first stage of IVF alone and without the hope of it leading to a baby at least until I meet someone that I would like to have children with. I am in a position where I could quite easily save up to afford it, but feel that it could quite easily end up being a massive waste of money.

My feeling now is that I want to start dating again when I'm ready, enjoy my life and my freedom again after my last bad experience and not give egg freezing another thought, letting life just take its course and basing my decision on being in the right relationship at the right time.

But I'm concerned that I will regret it, that not having children might be fine now but when I'm 40 I will see that I've made a huge mistake and missed the boat, and will kick myself for not having frozen when I have the chance.

This is all complicated by the fact that I don't understand why I don't have a stronger desire for children - I seem to be the odd one out in that respect, even though I do have some friends who are firmly in the childfree by choice camp. I feel a bit like there is something wrong with me and worry that I will one day "see the light" like everyone else, but only when it's too late.

Any thoughts welcome!

Just to add my two pence; if I were in your position I think on balance any time spent TTC would be better spent on other support with your own or donor eggs if you needed it (IVF specifically) than attempting to conceive with your own frozen eggs. Because of your age I feel that it’s probably better to try with your fresh eggs than attempt with frozen ones. I’m clearly no expert but I don’t think there would be much difference in the quality from ones frozen at 35 if you attempted ttc in the next few years. Past that I suspect your chances of success with a donor egg would be higher than your chances with your own frozen eggs.

It’s a bit garbled sorry! What I’m basically saying is my advice would be different if you were 25 but as you’re approaching late 30’s I’m not sure there’s much to gain if you’re not opposed to donor eggs.

Have you looked into the success rates with frozen eggs?

@SleepingBunnies21

I am now 40, and discussing TTC with my partner - we got together last year.

No offence, but I'd stop discussing and start trying. In my observation there's a cliff for many women at around 42. And months fly by very easily.

Im not sure if it's bullshut but it's said your mum's age at menopause minus ten years is your approximate fertility cliff.

Your observation? 🤨 The internet doesn’t need any more bullshit posts. Especially not when an actual specialist fertility clinician can give both real data of age related fertility and investigate individuals.

Perhaps if you’re sure if something is bullshit, research before posting it? Yes, it’s bullshit. Care to guess whether my IVF was successful? I’m Aquarius and my mum was left handed, if that helps.

To add some balance, I didn’t find IVF remotely tough on my body. I had no side effects and enjoyed following the process and learning the science. It was fascinating. Obviously I was highly motivated as I was hoping to conceive.
At almost the same time, my cousin was hospitalised with OHSS.
Both our clinics were very thorough about the risks, neither of us felt unprepared for our experiences. (happy to say both these cycles described were successful).

I just want to say that whilst you shouldn’t think of it as like a wellness treatment, you also shouldn’t assume it will be very tough either.

My only point on your OP though, is you mentioning dignity. Make your decision, but try to leave that out of it. There is nothing undignified about making this choice. It might be unnecessary for you, or a risk you don’t want to take, or too expensive… there are many reasons not to do it. Feeling that there is any lack of dignity is not one! Your choice - whatever it is - is right for you, and is dignified.

Thanks @Cocomarine. I just meant that I would find it undignified and humiliating, because I really really don't want to do it, I just feel pressured into it by the passing of time and the threat of maybe not being able to do have children in the future, even though I don't feel a strong desire to now.

That's a totally subjective view of how I think I would feel going through it - I certainly don't think that about any other women who choose to do it. On the contrary, I admire the strength of their convictions (whilst sincerely hoping they have done the research on the poor success rates).

You would probably be better off using donor sperm and creating embryos to freeze rather than freezing eggs. The process for you is exactly the same but 9/10 embryos survive being thawed and frozen embryo cycles have higher success rates than fresh IVF cycles. Eggs don't thaw well unfortunately.

If you would want a fertility opinion, you are best off going to speak to a fertility doctor/specialist, to get the most realistic view of your options.

@TractorAndHeadphones

The difference is the op does not want children. She's been very clear on that. She's worried she might want them one day.
It's not the same thing.

@Goodvibes12 I really would consider freezing your eggs if I were you. You are far more likely to regret NOT freezing them.

@SleepingBunnies21

I am now 40, and discussing TTC with my partner - we got together last year.

No offence, but I'd stop discussing and start trying. In my observation there's a cliff for many women at around 42. And months fly by very easily.

Im not sure if it's bullshut but it's said your mum's age at menopause minus ten years is your approximate fertility cliff.

I know a few people have been upset and insulted by this, but @SleepingBunnies21 does have a very valid point. I know on mumsnet, the average age for starting to have children is 45, but in real life it's much younger. 29-30 is the average age.

So it's not unreasonable to suggest it's probably best to not leave it much longer if you're 40. It's not like the poster hadn't even mentioned TTC. She had mentioned it.

Frozen eggs have a stupidly low chance of success in IVF.

If you're already 35 and don't want children, chances are you won't ever want them. You might, however, have a brief but intense urge during peri-menopause (very common).

@MrsColon

Frozen eggs have a stupidly low chance of success in IVF.

If you're already 35 and don't want children, chances are you won't ever want them. You might, however, have a brief but intense urge during peri-menopause (very common).

@MrsColon what’s your opinion on “stupidly low” though?

Do you actually know the success rate for eggs frozen aged 35 for later fertilisation and transfer according to maternal age and paternal sperm age? Adjusted for normal sperm vs male factor issues? (although IVF ICSI removes a lot of male factor because getting one good sperm from a sample is much easier than the complexities on the female side)

I’m going to hazard a guess that you don’t even know what these rates are.

Success rates for frozen embryo transfer have improved so much that they actually overtook fresh embryo transfer recently. To such an extent, that some clinic freeze all embryos and wait for a recovery period before transfer.

Now that’s not the same - because those are fertilised embryos not eggs. So I’m not going to make any claims like you have, without data. But I think it’s illustrative of development in freezing and thawing techniques, and it’s reasonable to extrapolate that those improvements will be beneficial for frozen eggs too.

I’d be interested to read about frozen egg transfer results, so please share if you have information. I’d imagine it’s fairly small samples given that as an “insurance” measure, many who have frozen will not have been through thaw-fertilisation-transfer.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2020/jun/30/uks-ivf-success-rate-has-tripled-in-last-20-years

@Cocomarine

Success rate per frozen egg for under 30 is 8.67%, for 40+ it's 3%. A woman aged 35-37 needs to freeze at least 7 eggs to have a 50% chance of a child.
extendfertility.com/extend-fertility-research-egg-freezing-success-rates-one-cycle/

[quote Tigger85]@Cocomarine

Success rate per frozen egg for under 30 is 8.67%, for 40+ it's 3%. A woman aged 35-37 needs to freeze at least 7 eggs to have a 50% chance of a child.
extendfertility.com/extend-fertility-research-egg-freezing-success-rates-one-cycle/[/quote]
That’s really interesting @tigger85 - thank you! I googled quickly earlier but didn’t have time to sift through, so really interested to read that.

So a 35yo needs to freeze 7 eggs for an average 50% chance. And the average egg collection from that age is 12. (totally anecdotally, 12 sounds right from my time on IVF forums when I was in the thick of it myself!)

So - on average - one cycle of IVF products nearby 2x the number of eggs needed for a 50% chance of a live birth.

I would disagree with @MrsColon that that is a “stupidly low” chance.

@Cocomarine I'd advise caution before such a condescending, patronising post.

I have had eight rounds of IVF with ICSI, I have spent almost £100k on fertility treatment. Believe me, I have researched all treatments ad nauseum.

Around 1.8% of all frozen eggs will result in a pregnancy, 1% in a live birth. However, that's only the percentages of pregnancy and birth following an embryo transfer - not every treatment cycle with frozen eggs will result in a single viable embryo. Many fail without a transfer.

HFEA have put 19% as the absolute maximum success rate, but due to issues with the way the data is collected my consultant (Professor Yacoub Khalaf at Guys) says the actual rates are far lower.

@littledandelionclock what makes you think I need a second piece of unsolicited advice on someone else's thread?

Stop derailing and consider for a moment that there might be very good reasons for not ttc immediately that i do not need to explain to you or anyone else on here.

www.hfea.gov.uk/media/2656/egg-freezing-in-fertility-treatment-trends-and-figures-2010-2016-final.pdf

Here's the most recent study - have a read.

I’m sorry for your personal experience @MrsColon and thank you for the link.

That quotes Greenwood et al 2018 as reporting a 25% live birth rate from 2016 (with an increasing trend) from egg thawing.

Even if we go with 19%, for a cycle costing £8K (number from the same report) I wouldn’t personally call that stupidly low.

I think it’s disingenuous to quote per egg percentage live birth rates without referencing the fact that the average cycle results in far more than a single egg. That said - I also think your point about reflecting cycles that failed to produce a viable egg is very important.

I remember one cycle having people tell me that I was lucky because I had 28 eggs collected. Well, I had PCOS and frankly the quality of them was awful. I did get to transfer, but nothing to freeze - whereas my cousin “only” had 8 and was able to freeze 7 after a SET.

So we can only work on averages for population level discussions about what is worth doing I think, what is good odds or stupidly low. But look at individual factors when making a personal decision. I personally think, that if at 40 I decided to go it alone, I’d look back on £8K for a 19% chance as definitely worth having. If I were making funding decisions for patients freezing for medical reasons, I’d consider 19% acceptable.

I do apologise for jumping down your throat, and you’re right - I was patronising. I was still frothing from a previous poster because I just get really annoyed when people don’t show data. No one report or newspaper article or study is the complete truth - my consultant certainly had his own opinions - but it’s good to see some data. Women considering this should know what there chances are!

MrsC, I didn’t want to throw in a platitude about hoping you had success with your treatment. I’ve just done a little stalky AS and seen you refer to your child… I know there’s other ways to become a parent so I won’t presume (I’ve been enough of a dick in my earlier post to you for one day ) but wanted to say, seeing that gave me a real smile for your family.

This is all complicated by the fact that I don't understand why I don't have a stronger desire for children

I can only speak for myself, bit I don't think this is strange at all. I never felt a twinge of broodiness until I found the right person to have children with.

www.eggedon.com

@palavah

"If it's easy then I'll feel i made the right decision. If it's difficult /impossible (including having a 2nd child, as i will likely be 43/44)"

Your statement above made me wonder if you were well aware of the issues re fertility. "Discussing" ttc suggested a lack of urgency.

My post was meant in good faith; if I didn't want to help.someone I simply wouldn't have bothered posting

There is no need for the sarcasm and antagonism.

I see you've had a go at another poster as well; posters on here don't just offer advice to the op, they might offer advice to anyone who posts re their si.ilar circumstances.... abd it's generally well intentioned, what's the point in snapping their heads off and being antagonistic

Perhaps if you’re sure if something is bullshit, research before posting it? Yes, it’s bullshit.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/health-20217735.amp

Your observation? 🤨
The internet doesn’t need any more bullshit posts.

When your experience is that women up to 41/42 can have can pregnant and deliver, but many of those women suffer secondary infertility and cannot do so after that age; and that coincides with NHS figures on chance of conception per cycle by age ..... it's not really a bullshit post.

Yes, of course the only way to know as best you can is to consult a fertility specialist and be investigated; but this is a forum where people discuss experiences and try to give advice. If op only wanted to hear ge opinions of fertility specialists, presumably she wouldn't have posted on here to discuss it and get opinions.

You are incredibly unnexessarily aggressive and derogatory.

A brief google (I have zero knowledge or experience of these things) suggests that it costs about £7-8k to collect, freeze, store and use eggs with a 20% chance of meeting the (fertile) man of your dreams doing this and even if not it's probably a bit more fun than injecting yourself with hormones and getting ultrasound gel plastered over you at regular intervals. My tuppence worth of ill informed irresponsible advice.