So if the Minimum Wage increases...

[missbunnyrabbit]

My own wage in a public sector job seems lower than ever. The article I read suggests the public sector pay freezes will end, but I doubt we'll get such a large pay rise!

Aibu to feel like packing my teacher job in to go and work a minimum wage job instead?

and yes I know you still have to work but school is closed so you don’t have to be in the classroom

When I speak to teacher friends who are actually honest about it, this whole “we work all through the holidays” turns out to be a little bit of nonsense. Of the 13 weeks holiday, my teacher friends have maybe about two or three weeks work to do. It isn’t the hardship we are led to believe it is.

By all means shoot me, but I don’t think salaries are a problem for teachers. I believe there are countless other issues that need dealing with regarding workload, but I don’t actually think the salaries are bad at all.

It isn’t (or shouldn’t be) about squabbling around ‘well you get this’ ‘well yes but you get that.’ Some roles have perks so integral to them that it isn’t really a perk at all, it is just how things are - you might as well say flight attendants have great jobs as they get to travel (you don’t say) or bar workers because they get free drinks.

But people complaining that it’s all the fault of the Tories that minimum wage is raised - er, what? The original Labour movement was about improving pay and conditions for the working classes, not ensuring that teachers stay a cut above them

Ok so if everyone gets the same pay rise (percentage wise) then its not really a pay rise and money begins to lose its value. Eventually professional wages will go up because that is what happens, the less skilled jobs begin to get paid more and the professional sectors start to struggle so they increase their wages to encourage more workers to train for that job. It can't all happen at the same time because that is not how the economy works. A 59p per hour wage increase will mean, as others have pointed out that there is less being paid out in benefits and more being paid in in taxes which then benefits the public sector in terms of funding. (Well it probably won't because we have a tory government who couldn't care less about the dregs of society but that's another topic).

Begrudging people on NMW who can barely afford to get by and many of whom do actually have qualifications and training and do jobs that others could not do - even if they do hold a degree - a tiny pay rise is a bit childish really and not looking at the bigger picture. We need 'unskilled' workers (I've never actually met a truly unskilled worker by the way) to function as a society, and so those people need to be able to afford to live.

Care worker here, I’d like to outline my daily conditions and work benefits. It would be AMAZING if more people could jack in their teaching/public sector/small business jobs and come join us in an industry that is rapidly loosing staff due to brexit and forced vaccination.

21:10 - arrive at work to start getting handover for the 30 clients we have, 18-64 year olds with severe physical and learning disabilities. Make detailed notes about their current wellbeing and any plans in place regarding medication, specialist equipment and therapies.

21:30 - start getting paid a few pence above NMW

21:30- 01:00am - with one other colleague (only 2 people on nights) put to bed 30 fully grown men and women, all of whom have continence needs (wee and poo cleaning up). None of our clients are mobile, we have to use hoists and our own backs to safely lift people up to 25stone into bed. Apply creams and use special equipment to prevent pressure areas. All while being buzzed all over the building to do small tasks like fetch drinks, turn tv channels, someone needs a wee etc etc

01:00- 6:00 - clean entire building, mop floors, disinfect all contact areas, deal with clinical waste, do laundry for all clients. All while answering buzzers for use of wee bottles, changing incontinence pads, someone’s been sick, some one needs an ambulance or OOH dr etc etc.

06:00 - start getting people up and showered, make breakfast and feed/observe them eating if they are choking risk. Do medications (carefully, I could actually kill someone)

07:30 - stop getting paid, but can’t go home as there’s not enough day staff to relieve us.

08:15 - probably get to go home by now.

(Currently you will be expected to work the whole shift in full PPE)

Benefits -

Sick pay after a year, maximum of 2 weeks then on SSP.

Peoples pension

Cycle to work (beware, a colleague was so tired after her shift she was knocked off her bike and the sick pay wouldn’t cover the recovery time. She is no longer physically able to work in care)

28 days annual leave plus bank holidays.

Ongoing mandatory training (this probably won’t be paid but might look good on your CV)

Full time hours will net you approx £1150 pcm.

@BoredZelda

and yes I know you still have to work but school is closed so you don’t have to be in the classroom

When I speak to teacher friends who are actually honest about it, this whole “we work all through the holidays” turns out to be a little bit of nonsense. Of the 13 weeks holiday, my teacher friends have maybe about two or three weeks work to do. It isn’t the hardship we are led to believe it is.

No, you’re right, I probably worded it wrong.

It just used to rankle when people would talk about how great it must be to have long holidays - as a school family support worker, I wasn’t paid in the holidays. My salary was stretched out over the year so I had something coming in every month. Not sure if it’s the same for teachers.

We could remove minimum wages, restrict labour supply and get wages up that way instead

Except it wouldn't work and part of the reason NMW was brought in was because of employers paying, frankly criminally, low wages. I was in sixth form and had a weekend job in a shop when NMW came in, my wage was just £1.15 an hour prior to that.

I used to think this when working as a support worker. I was paid more than minimum wage, but not much more. I was frequently abused by service users, had no career progression and never had breaks. It seemed much more appealing to lose 20p an hours for a job with less stress.

I do believe that minimum wage should increase though, but there will come a point where other jobs won't see the increase and they will be hard to recruit into. It will be swallowed up with inflation though. Nobody will be better off apart from the government who have ticked their box. It is just reducing the impact of inflation. It isn't more money to save or spend above what people have been spending.

I do think a payrise should be seen across the board, but no idea how you would implement that. Ultimately businesses will past the cost on to consumers as they believe they can't afford it. For some this will be a reality, but for many it isn't, it is just greed or large companies not managing their finances properly and on paper are successful businesses but are actually in serious debt.

@Moaningturtle

Thank you for all that you do for vulnerable people

The problem with increasing the minimum wage irrespective of others is that it erodes the difference between someone who's just started and someone who maybe has several years experience and additional qualifications.
The big problem is that it's a one sizr fits all, which is not the case.

@Notashandyta

I'm pretty sure that you don't resent the minimum wage increase, you just want a fair wage yourself. If you worked out how much teachers actually get paid 'per hour', it would be far, far less than the minimum wage.

This isn't true and makes teachers a laughing stock (I'm a teacher). You'd have to be woefully incompetent to be making 'far, far less than the minimum wage'.

@Moaningturtle

Care worker here, I’d like to outline my daily conditions and work benefits. It would be AMAZING if more people could jack in their teaching/public sector/small business jobs and come join us in an industry that is rapidly loosing staff due to brexit and forced vaccination.

21:10 - arrive at work to start getting handover for the 30 clients we have, 18-64 year olds with severe physical and learning disabilities. Make detailed notes about their current wellbeing and any plans in place regarding medication, specialist equipment and therapies.

21:30 - start getting paid a few pence above NMW

21:30- 01:00am - with one other colleague (only 2 people on nights) put to bed 30 fully grown men and women, all of whom have continence needs (wee and poo cleaning up). None of our clients are mobile, we have to use hoists and our own backs to safely lift people up to 25stone into bed. Apply creams and use special equipment to prevent pressure areas. All while being buzzed all over the building to do small tasks like fetch drinks, turn tv channels, someone needs a wee etc etc

01:00- 6:00 - clean entire building, mop floors, disinfect all contact areas, deal with clinical waste, do laundry for all clients. All while answering buzzers for use of wee bottles, changing incontinence pads, someone’s been sick, some one needs an ambulance or OOH dr etc etc.

06:00 - start getting people up and showered, make breakfast and feed/observe them eating if they are choking risk. Do medications (carefully, I could actually kill someone)

07:30 - stop getting paid, but can’t go home as there’s not enough day staff to relieve us.

08:15 - probably get to go home by now.

(Currently you will be expected to work the whole shift in full PPE)

Benefits -

Sick pay after a year, maximum of 2 weeks then on SSP.

Peoples pension

Cycle to work (beware, a colleague was so tired after her shift she was knocked off her bike and the sick pay wouldn’t cover the recovery time. She is no longer physically able to work in care)

28 days annual leave plus bank holidays.

Ongoing mandatory training (this probably won’t be paid but might look good on your CV)

Full time hours will net you approx £1150 pcm.

I'm sorry you are being treated like this. It reminds me of when I worked in care. I used to work a few days a week while at uni and never got above 8 stone in weight because I had to work so bloody hard on my shifts! Same with the next SW job where I was on my feet for 14 hour shifts. I don't think people understand how bad it is. You stay because you care about your clients and working in care doesn't give you many options career wise. I now sit on my arse all day so am much fatter, better off financially and feel much more appreciated and respected.

My niece asked about working in care and I was honest - you don't get paid much, you get abused quite a lot and it can be a dead end career wise. The lovely feeling you get when you start a care job goes after a couple of years and you just end up burnt out. Care workers, nurses, teachers, public services definitely deserve a pay rise. I think everyone does as wages have not kept up with inflation.

@Moaningturtle

Care worker here, I’d like to outline my daily conditions and work benefits. It would be AMAZING if more people could jack in their teaching/public sector/small business jobs and come join us in an industry that is rapidly loosing staff due to brexit and forced vaccination.

21:10 - arrive at work to start getting handover for the 30 clients we have, 18-64 year olds with severe physical and learning disabilities. Make detailed notes about their current wellbeing and any plans in place regarding medication, specialist equipment and therapies.

21:30 - start getting paid a few pence above NMW

21:30- 01:00am - with one other colleague (only 2 people on nights) put to bed 30 fully grown men and women, all of whom have continence needs (wee and poo cleaning up). None of our clients are mobile, we have to use hoists and our own backs to safely lift people up to 25stone into bed. Apply creams and use special equipment to prevent pressure areas. All while being buzzed all over the building to do small tasks like fetch drinks, turn tv channels, someone needs a wee etc etc

01:00- 6:00 - clean entire building, mop floors, disinfect all contact areas, deal with clinical waste, do laundry for all clients. All while answering buzzers for use of wee bottles, changing incontinence pads, someone’s been sick, some one needs an ambulance or OOH dr etc etc.

06:00 - start getting people up and showered, make breakfast and feed/observe them eating if they are choking risk. Do medications (carefully, I could actually kill someone)

07:30 - stop getting paid, but can’t go home as there’s not enough day staff to relieve us.

08:15 - probably get to go home by now.

(Currently you will be expected to work the whole shift in full PPE)

Benefits -

Sick pay after a year, maximum of 2 weeks then on SSP.

Peoples pension

Cycle to work (beware, a colleague was so tired after her shift she was knocked off her bike and the sick pay wouldn’t cover the recovery time. She is no longer physically able to work in care)

28 days annual leave plus bank holidays.

Ongoing mandatory training (this probably won’t be paid but might look good on your CV)

Full time hours will net you approx £1150 pcm.

You forgot to mention the facts that weekends and public holidays are just normal days!

And yes, if people do want to kack in a £30k a year job to come and help out, that would be great. We are a small unit and are losing 7 members of staff (from a team of 20) next month. I heard the Social Care minister say that the government have done some sums and they think the way to fix the crisis is to give carers money for more childcare, so they can work more hours as the government has judged there to be capacity in the system for those already in it to work more. I do a 45 hour week most weeks and barely see my children. Most of my colleages are the same. Its exhausting and can be thankless and you run the risk of being so tired you make mistakes - especially medication. (although Matt Hancock did give us a badge last year!)

Although I couldnt imagine doing anything else I often think that people on higher paid salaries who dream that being in a NMW job would be less stressed are like the woman that Jarvis Cocker sings about in 'Common People'.

Ok so if everyone gets the same pay rise (percentage wise) then its not really a pay rise and money begins to lose its value.

But that's essentially what needs to happen, everyone needs pay rises in line with inflation, yes things continue to increase but that happens anyway generally, has done for centuries.

[quote Warmduscher]@Moaningturtle

Thank you for all that you do for vulnerable people [/quote]
Thank you for saying that. It actually is my absolute pleasure, I love all my clients and am privileged to know them all.

But I am getting a teeny bit frustrated with people using our work as an “easy” option to get out of their “much harder and more responsible” careers.

Come join us in care, we will welcome you with very open arms. But please don’t come with the illusion that you’ll be getting an easy ride for not much less money than teaching. Because you won’t last a month and we need you to stay.

@TravellingSpoon I also forgot the little green “Care” badge Matt Hancock gave us at the start of the pandemic! That made me feel hugely more appreciated by the minister.

[quote Moaningturtle]@TravellingSpoon I also forgot the little green “Care” badge Matt Hancock gave us at the start of the pandemic! That made me feel hugely more appreciated by the minister. [/quote]
A great ift that we cant wear on our uniforms as its too much of a risk. I think mine is in my locker still.

[quote Moaningturtle]@TravellingSpoon I also forgot the little green “Care” badge Matt Hancock gave us at the start of the pandemic! That made me feel hugely more appreciated by the minister. [/quote]
What a great substitute for a decent wage, I’m sure you’d agree

I hate all this pettiness over who works harder. Divide and conquer. Don't fall for it! I have had two professional jobs. One was very difficult, one was easy. I have also worked in care, horrendously difficult and now working in retail, fun and easy to some extent yes but the conditions are terrible. People need to be paid a living wage. Professional pay has stagnated and needs to be better too. Simple.

@TheFairPrincess

I do think this thread shows a bad nature toward others. Mustering up bitterness when comparing yourself to the bottom line is part of the problem.

Also, I don't understand how you cannot see the glaring difference between salaried and unsalaried work. If you or your DC are ill, you have to consider whether you can afford to be off. How stressful is that?

Exactly 100%. Why are we British so keen for everyone to be bottom. A 6% pay rise on minimum wage is not a lot because minimum wage is so low. When you don’t have a lot a 100% increase isn’t much.

I’m sorry but I don’t think bankers need a pay rise. I have friends in this sector who are still getting bonuses and good pay offs.

Not everyone needs a 6% pay rise.

@Moaningturtle

Care worker here, I’d like to outline my daily conditions and work benefits. It would be AMAZING if more people could jack in their teaching/public sector/small business jobs and come join us in an industry that is rapidly loosing staff due to brexit and forced vaccination.

21:10 - arrive at work to start getting handover for the 30 clients we have, 18-64 year olds with severe physical and learning disabilities. Make detailed notes about their current wellbeing and any plans in place regarding medication, specialist equipment and therapies.

21:30 - start getting paid a few pence above NMW

21:30- 01:00am - with one other colleague (only 2 people on nights) put to bed 30 fully grown men and women, all of whom have continence needs (wee and poo cleaning up). None of our clients are mobile, we have to use hoists and our own backs to safely lift people up to 25stone into bed. Apply creams and use special equipment to prevent pressure areas. All while being buzzed all over the building to do small tasks like fetch drinks, turn tv channels, someone needs a wee etc etc

01:00- 6:00 - clean entire building, mop floors, disinfect all contact areas, deal with clinical waste, do laundry for all clients. All while answering buzzers for use of wee bottles, changing incontinence pads, someone’s been sick, some one needs an ambulance or OOH dr etc etc.

06:00 - start getting people up and showered, make breakfast and feed/observe them eating if they are choking risk. Do medications (carefully, I could actually kill someone)

07:30 - stop getting paid, but can’t go home as there’s not enough day staff to relieve us.

08:15 - probably get to go home by now.

(Currently you will be expected to work the whole shift in full PPE)

Benefits -

Sick pay after a year, maximum of 2 weeks then on SSP.

Peoples pension

Cycle to work (beware, a colleague was so tired after her shift she was knocked off her bike and the sick pay wouldn’t cover the recovery time. She is no longer physically able to work in care)

28 days annual leave plus bank holidays.

Ongoing mandatory training (this probably won’t be paid but might look good on your CV)

Full time hours will net you approx £1150 pcm.

I will add, we do get to sit down and eat/have a cuppa whenever we have chance too, at least an hour a night if not more. And that’s paid. I’m not a total martyr.

You aren't worse off because someone else has a pay rise.

Don't get sacked into thinking other workers are the issue.

I work in a school but am probably more affected by this than a teacher because support staff terms and conditions are different than teachers. I earn £9.47 an hour so I presume I would go up 3p even though there is a pay freeze and then the people who are all a grade lower than me would now earn the same. But I dont think i would change jobs because my hours are regular and at social times and my employer does pay 8% into a pension wheras some employers pay the minimum which is more like 2%. I also get sick pay which would cover 6 months. Its also a nice environment to work in and I get job satisfaction. I might consider dropping a grade though if it is the same money as it doesnt seem worth the extra responsibility.
I think people forget a lot of public sector roles are set at or just above minimum wage and the qualifications or responsibilities to end up just 50p or so above minimum wage role in your same organisation are quite a lot of effort.

Funny how no one talks of increased costs being passed on when bankers or any high earners get extra millions paid to them but some shop worker being able to afford their rent is apparently terrible for the economy.

Wages as a percentage cost to employers has gone down over the past few decades yet we don’t get a benefit from that but we’ll all apparently suffer if wages go up for those on low earning jobs. Imagine if lower paid workers had more spending power then they’d actually be able to stimulate the economy more as a higher percentage of their money earned gets spent.

It's sad to see so many people here would begrudge someone on nmw a pay rise because of a misplaced sense of superiority. That's exactly the sort of attitude that's got us into the situation we're in now.

Broadly speaking we have accepted pay structures of something like the below

CEO/Director - £3000
Senior manager - £100
Manager - £15
Team leader - £9.
Worker- £8.91

What those objecting to a nmw rise apparently want to see happen.

CEO - £4000
SM - £125
Manager - £18
Team leader - £10.
Worker- £9.50

And this what we should be striving to see happen.

CEO - £500
SM - £125
Manager - £35
Team leader - £20
Worker- £15

We need to bring the bottom up and the top way way down, not just move everyone up a few % more.