So if the Minimum Wage increases...

[missbunnyrabbit]

My own wage in a public sector job seems lower than ever. The article I read suggests the public sector pay freezes will end, but I doubt we'll get such a large pay rise!

Aibu to feel like packing my teacher job in to go and work a minimum wage job instead?

Have you ever been a teacher? 39 hours per week 🤣😂 my contracted hours were 40 per week. Then the marking, planning, events, parents evenings etc… during term time it was probably closer to 60 hours and then during the holidays it was expected that you’d run at least one day of catch up.

Have you worked split shifts in a hotel on minimum wage? You do late bar to, so may not get home till 2am but have got to be back in for 6:30am breakfast shift, work till 11am and back in for 4pm. Or you’d just start at 3pm and work through till 2 go home get some sleep till young family woke you at 7

Then the next week, no work and no money. The stress of that not easy and trying to work out how to rob Peter to pay Paul.

Minimum wages, terms and conditions need to change for the better and the lack of understanding of that shines through.

Of course it will drive drive prices up, it will also exasperate shortages in some sectors already struggling to retain staff. Someone working full time on £9.50 and hour (plenty do, not everyone is part time) will have take home pay of just over £1.4k. Not far off what a newly qualified nurse makes. All of those jeering it's not a race to the bottom, no, or course not, but why on earth would anyone go to university for 3 years, work in a collapsing health system for hardly anything above minimum wage? If the tories were really arsed they'd cut the levies on energy, perhaps look into council tax rates etc. But no, they put the min wage up for a nice headline, which will force prices up which will then affect the poorest in society. Are benefits rising? I can guess...no.

This increase will put pressure on small businesses, and the increase in salary will be passed onto customers, so no real benefit. Inflation is rising. Gov just kicking the can down the road. It won’t affect big businesses, who hardly pay any corp tax in any case.

Teaching is a stressful job, one of my sons teachers left to became an interior designer, I don’t blame her at all, she was a lovely teacher and good at her job, but she wasn’t enjoying it, so what is the point. Life is too short to be unhappy in a job.

@Freddiefox

My preschool is likely to close, I won’t be able to afford to pay the nursery staff any more money than I already do, unless the government increase the funding rates which I doubt they will. We barely survived last year. We won’t survive this increase.

I also run a preschool and we are in exactly the same position. With this and the staff shortages meaning we can't have enough children on the books to keep us afloat, our preschool is in real trouble.

You’d give up a teacher pension? Feel free but I think that will hit you hard in later life

@Fetarabbit

Of course it will drive drive prices up, it will also exasperate shortages in some sectors already struggling to retain staff. Someone working full time on £9.50 and hour (plenty do, not everyone is part time) will have take home pay of just over £1.4k. Not far off what a newly qualified nurse makes. All of those jeering it's not a race to the bottom, no, or course not, but why on earth would anyone go to university for 3 years, work in a collapsing health system for hardly anything above minimum wage? If the tories were really arsed they'd cut the levies on energy, perhaps look into council tax rates etc. But no, they put the min wage up for a nice headline, which will force prices up which will then affect the poorest in society. Are benefits rising? I can guess...no.

I guess you'd have to weigh up the pros and cons of each. My mum works in NHS and I work in the private sector for £9.50ph. She only earns about £1 an hour more than I do, but she has benefits that I don't - job security (I was furloughed and my job was in danger in 2020), NHS pension, fully paid sick leave, more annual leave. You have to decide if that's worth it.

Over the years working in schools I've heard many teachers saying this.
"My job is so hard, I might as well work in ASDA/McDonalds/Amazon where I'd be less stressed" or envying/slating the playground assistants or cleaners.

Funnily enough though they never seem to actually quit and go stack shelves or clean somewhere because the kids love them so much and beg them to stay 🙄

I suspect like them the OP will moan like this for many years to come but will never seriously contemplate leaving.

It's like those in employment who look at unemployed or people with addictions and comment with what sounds like envy 'why don't I just quit my stressful paid job and sit at home watching daytime TV, they have a better life than me wah wah wah'

@Feelingoktoday

You really cannot compare the salary of a teacher to someone on minimum wage. Have you ever worked in a job with minimum wage? For a start a teacher works 39 weeks while minimum wage works 48 weeks - considerable difference even if teachers work in the holidays. Both are tough jobs but minimum wage jobs are sole destroying.

We need to increase wages so that tax credits can stop. It’s wrong that a couple can work but still need help from the state. All we are doing is funding shareholder dividends and company profits.

I've worked as a teacher and I've worked in a shop on MW. I can tell you working in the shop was FAR easier, FAR less stressful and FAR fewer hours.

@Fetarabbit why on earth would anyone go to university for 3 years, work in a collapsing health system for hardly anything above minimum wage?

Someone in a NMW job will probably still be on NMW in 10/20 years time and ens up on minimal state pension upon retirement.

Hopefully someone who's been to uni will get a job with prospects and progression, probably earning far nore than NMW after a few years and likely to have a good pension with tax free lump sum on retirement.

You need to look at the long term big picture.

Public sector workers usually understand that their sick pay, holidays and pensions are far better and that their ‘lower’ salaries reflect this.

This is very true, but there are limits! When the minimum wage goes up I will be less than £900 per year better off than someone doing the same hours in Tesco (other supermarkets are available) and I'm not the lowest CS grade! As a CS with 15 years experience that is ridiculous. I can't pay my rent with sick pay, holidays and pension. You know what I mean. In the department I work in they have cut the staff BY HALF over the last 5 years so I am literally doing 2 peoples jobs. Yet people still think we get final salary pensions (I never have). It is galling when people spout crap without a clue!

My preschool is likely to close, I won’t be able to afford to pay the nursery staff any more money than I already do, unless the government increase the funding rates which I doubt they will. We barely survived last year. We won’t survive this increase.

I also run a preschool and we are in exactly the same position. With this and the staff shortages meaning we can't have enough children on the books to keep us afloat, our preschool is in real trouble.

So you both employ staff who have had to undergo lengthy training in ad vocational qualification to do what they do, and you pay them minimum wage?

Not all minimum wage jobs are as described on here, many are wfh call centre type jobs and 9 to 5 office jobs, many office workers only earn minimum wage. They are not all manual labour, zero hour, shift workers

@lomoloko

Wages are not and have never been a reward for hard work. It's a reflection of the added value you can bring to a market and the negotiating position you can take to get your percentage of that added value. That's why union jobs pay better than comparable non union jobs -- your negotiating position is stronger.

It's got nothing to do with effort. It's entirely to do with power.

If loads of teachers leave their jobs and take up shelf stacking at ASDA, the wages of teachers will probably rise, if their job is actually necessary and valuable. So I say go for it.

I am paid approxiimately 76 times what I 'earned' as a family carer. My job is, comparatively, an absolute doddle. Salary really has got nothing to do with effort, or virtue. It's just a measure of social power.

Same here. I earn loads more now than I did as a carer but no way is my job harder. It’s just more valued, that is to say, it’s valued fairly I would say, rather than being so undervalued by society with such bad conditions I had to leave as it was killing me.

Your arrogance to come and say this OP - especially when you’ve never been trapped long term (and no a couple of years around uni doesn’t count ) into a NMW job where you’re treated like crap - and people like you sneer and hate the idea of it actually paying anywhere near like enough ( and this rise still isn’t enough to live on) - is astonishing. I wonder if you also resent people on benefits to top up these ridiculous NMwages too. Because in addition to all the other shit, there’s that stigma too.

I’m sad you’re teaching, I think you should leave if you’re this bitter and resentful. I certainly hope you’re not teaching my child with that attitude.

@YouJustFoldItIn

My preschool is likely to close, I won’t be able to afford to pay the nursery staff any more money than I already do, unless the government increase the funding rates which I doubt they will. We barely survived last year. We won’t survive this increase.

I also run a preschool and we are in exactly the same position. With this and the staff shortages meaning we can't have enough children on the books to keep us afloat, our preschool is in real trouble.

So you both employ staff who have had to undergo lengthy training in ad vocational qualification to do what they do, and you pay them minimum wage?

It's almost as if the government should properly fund childcare provision isn't it (no, not fully fund, but adequately). Blaming providers is pointless, many are desperately trying to make ends meet, increasing fees often isn't an option as already a full time place is £1k plus and it would become even more unaffordable to many families. 'Free hours' at 2/3 are very costly to nurseries and childcare settings, keen to hear your ideas though as to how pay staff a higher wage (many managers would love to be able to offer this), whilst being accessible (if no one can afford to use you then you won't fill spaces)?

I don't think it's a good idea to argue about "who has it worse" and I totally agree that NMW should go up, but if teachers' pay and conditions are soooo good, then why do we have so many shortages? Like a PP, my school tried to recruit maternity cover in a core subject recently, and not one person applied.

Yes, in some areas, there are plenty of teachers, but for some subjects there are massive shortages, especially in places where it's pretty expensive to live.

Last half term was especially tough, and I do think some people fantasize about leaving for a minimum wage job where they could leave their work at the door!

A lot of people don't stay in teaching long enough to get any real benefit from the pension- that should tell you something too.

hate the idea of it actually paying anywhere near like enough ( and this rise still isn’t enough to live on)

It's astounding the amount of people who don't understand economics. There are plenty of ways the government could make the cost of living more affordable without intervening in stuff, like taking the energy cap off and reviewing some stuff. When the cost of everything inevitably rises, how do you think those on benefits- such as long term disability etc will fare? It's not as simple as yay raise wages and everyone will be better off.

And their benefits aren't rising.

Oh, and FWIW, the pay for qualified early years staff is criminal.

I wonder what will happen at work. One of my jobs is public sector, and yes a pay freeze - they'll have to pay us all the minimum wage whatever. However, a few of us are paid more due to the fact that when we were taken our job was on a different pay scale and we're on a different grade. Either way, we're all paid below the new minimum wage, so wondering if there'll be any acknowledgement for those of us who have a lot more experience and confidence to deal with everything.

I've survived three lots of redundancies in my other job. Most staff will now be due a pay increase, but worrying as we're on bare minimum of staff and takings are well short of pre-lockdown.

@MissM2912

Op- you are coming across as really quite arrogant and immature. I earn more than a teacher, and have a stressful (at times) job also in the education sector. Could my staff on minimum wage do my job- many of them probably couldn’t because of the skills, education and experience needed. However- I also know that in terms of over all job satisfaction and life standards mine is much higher and I in no way equate what I should earn based on what they do. Many of those on minimum wage jobs have a pretty rubbish time and significantly reduced life expectancy as a direct result of living in poverty and doing manual/ physical work. That alone should compensate for the fact they haven’t had the privilege of a university education! Show some compassion and stop playing the victim. Nothing grates me more than teachers who complain about a career they chose.

Great post Totally agree

If the jobs that don't need such education or training, and have much less stress and workload, are paid closer and closer to what trained professionals earn, then why would anyone choose to be a trained professional? Unless they genuinely loved the job

You are wrong to think that minimum wage jobs come without stress or workload.
Most also come without any kind of benefits (sick leave, decent pension) status, progression or job satisfaction.

If you want to stop being a teacher and start working as a delivery driver go for it!

I wouldn’t leave op for this, but up to you of course

But also if this small rise causes question on thread Labour’s £15 must seem crazy

Iirc that was their version

I also think it depend where you live in th UK, a teacher or nurse’s salary in Yorkshire will go further than in the south east. Maybe public sector wages should be adjusted to reflect the cost of living ? Just a thought.My friend is a classroom teacher and earns £35 k which is a good salary in this part of the world where you can buy a decent house for £200k in a nice area.

I can understand where the op is coming from cause I do think teachers are undervalued. I'm sort of lucky in my minimum wage job(currently it's £9.50 ph, we might get £10 when it goes up). I have job security, 30 hr contract, sick pay, decent amount of holidays(not 12 weeks a year like a teacher but I get 7). So I get how teachers feel under valued for what they do. However you couldn't work my job without childcare issues. The store is open from 7am(you work from 6) till 10pm. So the hours are very variable, it's rubbish if you've got kids. Minimum wage jobs are rarely 9-5 and having the school hols off is a great benefit for a teacher.

Whilst I have no issue with minimum wage rising of course, it doesn't work to just have one section of workers having rises. Whenever there was a minimum wage rise our nursery would need to increase their prices, this was when my pay wasn't hugely more than minimum wage and frozen, so it would be a big struggle for us. Now we aren't reliant on childcare and have much higher wages it doesn't impact us in that way anymore, but back then it was really difficult. Those just outside of help are expected to bear the biggest brunt in changes like this.