Is a teddy a problem - advice from Muslim mumsnetters please!

[Teddyhelp]

I ordered some flowers for a Muslim colleague who has just had a baby. I saw you could add a lovely stuffed bunny so I added that to the order. A bit later, I suddenly had a thought that this might not be okay so I googled it and it might not. I'm on hold trying to cancel the order but can anyone advise me if this will be completely unacceptable if the order gets delivered??? Causing any offence is the last thing I want to do. Thank you

@picklemewalnuts

[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniconism]]inn_Islam

There's also a flaw deliberately woven into carpets and other patterned things, as it would be hubris to attempt to create perfection.

Ironically I always found this incredibly hubristic, as if, without the deliberate flaw, it would otherwise be perfect!

I grew up muslim and have lots of teddies from my childhood (very sentimental about them). They are absolutely fine

@WhiskyXray

Thanks, *@Elopelo and @picklemewalnuts*.

That's interesting about the intentional flaw- I believe the Japanese have a similar notion. And I have a Greek Orthodox Christian friend who explains away his many foibles, particularly his chronic lateness, in a similar fashion- perfection being solely for the gods.

The Amish people do this too when they are creating their amazing patchwork quilts. Intentional mistake because only God is perfect.

It appears to be one of those beliefs or practises which is common across many religions/faiths.

Oh and also I've seen lots of people share photos of their kids praying with teddies and dolls lined up as a congregation around them.

This is freaking adorable.

Recently, I had a traditional image up for Rosh Hashanah, and the number of ignorant comments was quite astounding.

@BudrosBudrosGalli I'm afraid to ask...

Separately though, what image was it that you put up?

@BudgeSquare , i guess its tryingto make it perfect which is arrogance. Acknowledging it can't be perfect by the addition of a deliberate flaw is a tradition which reminds us of our imperfections and stops us getting smug!

@JingsMahBucket

Recently, I had a traditional image up for Rosh Hashanah, and the number of ignorant comments was quite astounding.

@BudrosBudrosGalli I'm afraid to ask...

Separately though, what image was it that you put up?

Nothing controversial, just a very traditional picture of a sliced apple, honey, and dripper spoon, plus pomegranate seeds.

That prompted quite a few graphic and salacious comments of where to spread the honey for DH to lick and vice versa, plus other pretty inappropriate comments. Very weird since that is not a usual way to talk. I am not clutching pearls or in total distress, just a bit agog at the ignorance.

A lot of people like to ignore it but while there is justified outrage about any negative stereotypes and insults to Muslim people, there such casual anti-semitism, especially by those on the left that is quite disconcerting. I don't want to derail the thread but it once again showed me the disparity in attitudes. I do however think it is lovely that people want to not offend someone of a different religion but am surprised that something so major is not common knowledge.

@PackedintheUK

I'm not going to try and explain the teachings, but images of God's creations are forbidden. You don't find animal or human statues or pictures in Muslim art. It's all abstract.

I had always understood that in a secular context the prohibition was not universal,but culturally dependent.

Muslim girls have dolls which are dressed modestly. Even strict Amish children have dolls without faces. There’s lots of variation in practice.
I’d never give a Muslim child a stuffed pig, dog, or cat, but bunnies or bears should be fine.

As a quilter, I can tell you mistakes sneak into quilts without conscious effort. The deliberate mistake theory helps sell quilts to outsiders, or the English.

@Ericaequites

As a quilter, I can tell you mistakes sneak into quilts without conscious effort. The deliberate mistake theory helps sell quilts to outsiders, or the English.

But there are cultural differences Worra. For example if I'm invited around to a friend's house I don't take a bottle of wine with me. I don't want to do something that makes someone else feel uncomfortable. Likewise, when I arranged a meet up outside of my course for the group (about eight people) I picked a venue that was going to be OK for everyone (not a bar). If I treated 'everyone the same' or as in the past, we could be going to a hog roast (not OK for Jewish people as well) or on a piss up which really would not be OK for everyone, which is why I changed it because I didn't want to exclude anyone. I don't think people should tiptoe around people but equally, asking questions because they don't know the answer and don't want to do something inappropriate shouldn't be criticised.

Who cares? Committing murder is wrong. A child cuddling a teddy is the
least sinful thing I can possibly think of.

@Ericaequites

Muslim girls have dolls which are dressed modestly. Even strict Amish children have dolls without faces. There’s lots of variation in practice. I’d never give a Muslim child a stuffed pig, dog, or cat, but bunnies or bears should be fine.

I can understand the pig and dog, but what is the problem with a cat? Isn't there a lovely story about Mohammed cutting of his sleeve rather than disturb the cat which was sitting on it?

This thread gives me the chance to ask a question of those who should really know the answer.

I understand the requirement in Islam not to show pictures of creatures created by God. But frequently when seeing speeches in Iran there are pictures of the Supreme Leader in the background. Am I missing something, or is there simply an exemption for pictures of religious leaders?

@BudrosBudrosGalli
That prompted quite a few graphic and salacious comments of where to spread the honey for DH to lick and vice versa, plus other pretty inappropriate comments. Very weird since that is not a usual way to talk. I am not clutching pearls or in total distress, just a bit agog at the ignorance.

WTAF? That is so weird. I guess because most of my folks are really liberal, lefty, and a mix of (former) religions and atheism -- and just plain respectful people, this would never have happened. We're all knowledgeable about other cultures all around. Sheesh. Sorry that happened to you.

@WorraLiberty

I do wish people would stop othering Muslims on here, and it is always Muslims.

"I'd like to buy my Muslim neighbour a gift but I don't want to cause offence".

"A Muslim lady is coming to my house with her DC on a playdate. Would she be offended if I baked her a cake?"

"I want to send Christmas cards to my neighbours and don't want to leave out the house across the road, but they're Muslim and I don't want to offend them".

Muslims are generally the same as the rest of the human race - not some sort of strange beings with two heads who take offence to everything.

A nice thought is exactly that and even if it doesn't suit their religion, it will generally be accepted in exactly the kind spirit in which it's given. Because just like people of all religions, they don't expect you to know everything about it.

Honestly, I live in an area that's highly populated by Muslims and this is the one issue that comes up time and again. The majority of Muslims I know are just fed up of people 'tiptoeing' around them, because even with the best of intentions, it is othering.

That’s handy that you are living in a very diverse community and have Muslim friends that you can discuss these sorts of issues with.

Where I live, there are no Asian or Black families at DC’s small village school. There are a tiny number of non Catholic white familles and that’s as diverse as it gets!

What do you suggest posters should do as an alternative to posting generic queries on Mumsnet then?

@BudrosBudrosGalli what the hell is wrong with people? I'm sorry. Sorry they sullied your lovely decorations in such a puerile fashion.

I do think antisemitism is so ingrained in us (non-Jewish Britons) that we usually don't even suspect it till it's pointed out to us.

I remember in primary school I gave a Christmas card to my friend.

She returned it, apparently at her mothers behest, with scribbles and angry faces all over it because “we don’t celebrate Christmas and it’s offensive to us”.

Just common or garden arseholes though - nothing to do with them being Muslims.

God
I wish we wasn't allowed teddy's
As I literally have them coming out my ears!!

Lovely lovely no issue at all only some really strict Muslims don't do things with eyes but unless she's super super
Religious I doubt it very much

Never met anyone like this.

@Teddyhelp

Thank you everyone for your advice. Hopefully I've removed the teddy but I feel happier that if it does get delivered, it won't cause offence. My colleague is absolutely delightful so fingers crossed it will be fine!

Such a shame you've removed it

@SVRT19674

The little muslim girls in the park have dolls just like my daughter´s. Their mums seem to be okay with it.

It's not one shoe fits all we're all different levels of faith Some yes some no.

90 percent I'd say would be kool with a teddy bear

@Elopelo

Hi OP. I’m Muslim and I can tell you that the teddy will be fine and will be much appreciated by your colleague. I wish I had colleagues as nice as you!

For previous posters asking, majority of Muslims do not like to have pictures or images of animate beings in their homes etc, this is because of many prohibitions dealing with drawings or images of faces etc, it’s just something that traditionally Muslims don’t do/like. It all goes back to the idea of not knowing what God/angels/Prophets look like. It’s why traditional Islamic art is usually made up of calligraphy and geometric patterns.

However when it comes to kids toys etc there is no issue.

Thanks for explaining x 👍🏼

Helpimfalling
"I wish we wasn't allowed teddy's"
"As I literally have them coming out my ears!!"

Really? Well in that case, we're going to need a photo! I'd love to see that.