Is a teddy a problem - advice from Muslim mumsnetters please!

[Teddyhelp]

I ordered some flowers for a Muslim colleague who has just had a baby. I saw you could add a lovely stuffed bunny so I added that to the order. A bit later, I suddenly had a thought that this might not be okay so I googled it and it might not. I'm on hold trying to cancel the order but can anyone advise me if this will be completely unacceptable if the order gets delivered??? Causing any offence is the last thing I want to do. Thank you

Wouldn't worry OP. Our neighbours are Muslim and I rarely see their little girl minus her cuddly lamb which has well chewed ears and tail

I think it also depends on where you work @WorraLiberty - my workplace is extremely multicultural and provides educational materials for staff on each others beliefs. This includes white Christians and it isn't intended to 'other', but for example I knew not to send white flowers to my Chinese colleague who'd just had her baby, which wouldn't occur to me otherwise. My Muslim friends are delighted when we research gifts before sending them as it avoids them having to do the "labour" of educating us about it, and it's part of "the thought that counts".

Is it "othering" Worra? I'm torn. As a Muslim I'm usually touched when people seek information in order to better understand our faith and practices. But yes, there does seem to be a widespread belief that Muslims (and only Muslims) are offended by pretty much anything.

And as others point out, Muslims come from different cultures and traditions all around the world (including British!) and so there's a huge variety of practices.

On this issue, I have never met anyone who would refuse their kids teddies or dolls, let alone be offended by a teddy as a gift. I mean I've known Muslims to be gifted alcohol and they've just smiled and either accepted it and given it away or gracefully declined the gift with a smile and an apology but without the least bit of offence. The key is the spirit in which it is given.

On the question of images of people and animals - it also dates back to the pre-islamic practice of idol worship, so some Muslims will keep family photos tucked away in an album or avoid having family photos up in a room where they will pray.

@EatSleepRantRepeat

I think it also depends on where you work *@WorraLiberty* - my workplace is extremely multicultural and provides educational materials for staff on each others beliefs. This includes white Christians and it isn't intended to 'other', but for example I knew not to send white flowers to my Chinese colleague who'd just had her baby, which wouldn't occur to me otherwise. My Muslim friends are delighted when we research gifts before sending them as it avoids them having to do the "labour" of educating us about it, and it's part of "the thought that counts".

Yeah I suppose the workplace is different.

It's just annoying being treated to the majority of other parents in the school for example, especially over something as simple as baking a cake.

@treesandweeds there are also many branches of Christianity that don’t agree with Halloween celebrations, or choose not to mark Christmas in any special way (I’m not talking Jehovah Witnesses asking the school to refrain from singing about Santa Claus - just people not decorating or doing cards).

Do you go around thinking about the preferences or beliefs of non-Muslims too? Because it we’re being considerate, let’s not make it an exclusive thing for certain groups.

In my religion we don’t do Halloween, Christmas, Easter, and would try to avoid Harry Potter and Stranger Things for example, especially when it comes to the kids. My neighbours and colleagues at work have no idea about some of my beliefs and I wouldn’t think it inconsiderate if they gifted me something related to any of the above. I also don’t drink, but because I’m white no one thinks that it could ever offend me to receive a bottle of wine.

Oh and also I've seen lots of people share photos of their kids praying with teddies and dolls lined up as a congregation around them. Everyone I know thinks this is cute, I've never heard it suggested the child shouldn't even have teddies!

I don't think it's othering to try to find out more about other people's cultures.

Your best friend gets offended because others worry she'll get offended? I do get where she's coming from, a little, but I mean, round here, people leave pigs' heads on the mosque doorstep.

That's the thing @Rumplestrumpet. The 'offence' and therefore the fear of causing it, was something very much started by the tabloids years ago.

I feel it does nothing for true integration but then again knowing the tabloids, that was probably the point of all the bullshit stories.

Muslims being 'offended' about Christmas springs to mind 🙄🙄

@WhiskyXray

I don't think it's othering to try to find out more about other people's cultures.

Your best friend gets offended because others worry she'll get offended? I do get where she's coming from, a little, but I mean, round here, people leave pigs' heads on the mosque doorstep.

See? You've assumed she gets offended.

She doesn't, she gets very frustrated and believe me she's not the only one.

Oh yeah, we have to say "Happy Holidays" nowadays.... Except I and everyone I know wishes people Merry Christmas -and enjoy having an extra reason to celebrate on dark cold winter days-

Are you JW @EileenGC? That was one of the situations we've had to manage before, because people were offended that their JW colleagues didn't join in team birthday cards, collections, secret Santas etc until it was explained to them. (They were quite observant so a "let's have cake but no candles" get out clause was also unacceptable)

Worra, sorry, but bollocks. You apparently took offence to this thread and ascribed your views to your Muslim friend.

I don't think Muslim people are easily offended at all. That's not my experience.

I'm hugely embarrassed that I had no knowledge of this until now, despite having worked with Muslim colleagues!

@EileenGC i was brought up like that too re Halloween, but it wasn't such a big deal here in the 80s and 90s. Do you think there are more Halloween related things these days? It definitely seems like that to me but then we didn't have half of the "stuff" kids have today at Christmas either (Christmas eve boxes, etc etc)

And I have a Greek Orthodox Christian friend who explains away his many foibles, particularly his chronic lateness, in a similar fashion- perfection being solely for the gods.
Have it on my authority that this is absolute bs

Totally off topic but aren’t there lots of patterns in nature?

@Rumplestrumpet

Oh yeah, we have to say "Happy Holidays" nowadays.... Except I and everyone I know wishes people Merry Christmas -and enjoy having an extra reason to celebrate on dark cold winter days-

I know 🤣🤣

But that's another thread that'll be doing the rounds this Christmas..."AIBU, what message to choose for my Muslim neighbour's Christmas card?"

People will fall over themselves to suggest 'Season's Greetings' or 'Warm Winter Wishes' etc.

I can't imagine any Muslim I know being anything other than fine with "Happy Christmas".

I also can't imagine many Mumsnetters complaining they received a card saying wishing them a Happy Eid when they're Christian - let alone being 'offended' by the kind thought.

@forinborin I did have my suspicions...

@WhiskyXray

Worra, sorry, but bollocks. You apparently took offence to this thread and ascribed your views to your Muslim friend.

I don't think Muslim people are easily offended at all. That's not my experience.

So apparently I'm offended now as well as my Muslim friend?

See, you're completely proving my point about this 'offence' nonsense.

People can be frustrated without being offended. It's perfectly possible.

I think it's sweet you're worrying so much!

My dad is Arab Muslim and, I've got to be honest, I'd never heard of this! I do remember a friend bringing him and my step mum a gift which included a soap with gelatine in it. They thanked her graciously and then my step mum gave the soap to a charity shop and kept the rest. No drama.

Wow you learn something new everyday. I'm sure even if your friend doesn't want the Teddy (although it seems from comments here it will be fine) she will still say thank you and maybe give it to charity etc. I often get gifts of things that for whatever reason aren't suitable but I always say thank you then give them to the school for their tombola.

@EatSleepRantRepeat no, not JW and I do actually celebrate Christmas and love a good Easter chocolate binge. I don’t make a fuss at work when they discuss celebrations I don’t like to join in with, but that was my point. Because I’m white, and Christian, people don’t think to check whether something they do/say/give me is going to be offensive or not. They don’t give it a second thought.

There are many Muslims who wouldn’t be offended if their neighbour popped a Christmas card through their letterbox each year. There are equally some Christians who totally would be. But our assumption is to ‘check’ only when it’s a Muslim family because we start othering automatically think they could be offended.

In my experience, someone who is severely offended or feels strongly about a very common custom in the country or community they live in, will let you know about it soon enough.

@SoupDragon

I had no idea!

I knew about the flaw in carpet patterns but thought this might just be an urban myth.

I love Mumsnet!

Just said exactly the same to DH next to me.

Every day's a school day on MN!

When I had babies my next door neighbours (devout Muslims) bought me teddies for the babies, and i don't think they'd have bought them had it not been ok x

@picklemewalnuts

[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniconism]]inn_Islam

There's also a flaw deliberately woven into carpets and other patterned things, as it would be hubris to attempt to create perfection.

I remember my DM consoling me with this when I made an unfixable mistake when knitting or sewing.

This thread shocked me a little. I am surprised that in a society with a fairly sizable Muslim population, people know so very little about some very basic tenets of other major religions. I am also a little bemused by the bias of concern that I observe so often. People are anxiously concerned about the most innocent actions when it concerns those of the Muslim faith but frequently show an astonishing lack of respect for major Jewish events. Recently, I had a traditional image up for Rosh Hashanah, and the number of ignorant comments was quite astounding.