To think that refusing to do an handover so you can be called back as a consultant is a dick move?

[AFewScrewsLucy]

Colleague handed in notice. And has outright refused to do a handover of knowledge, because they wants company to keep them on with a retainer and consultancy fees. so when a particular procedure happens, the company would have to being them back and pay them to do the work? They are leaving to start their new business in consultancy for this procedure.There is a member of staff that will be taking the role on and the procedure is quite specific to the company.
Is this person a dick, or that's just how business works etc.

Lots of mistakes the company needs to learn from OP, but you need to stop thinking about how to force him to hand over the info and think about how you're going to re engineer it without him.

In the employer's shoes I'd be quietly letting the network know that the company that employed his for x years wouldn't contemplate having him back as a consultant.

How did the exiting person ever go on leave? Was this procedure left until they returned?

As noted above, all processes and procedures should be documented in a timely manner. It is part of what employees are paid to do. It shouldn't be left until the single point of failure leaves the organisation.

But I'm asking the question to try and get a sense of where the person is coming from

Pretty clear...he's an unprofessional CF.

You’re going to need to hit the ground running with solutions and strategies to resolve the company’s fuck up.

@TheBlessedCheesemaker

Consultant will almost certainly not have factored in that HMRC will view this as a continuation of a previous role which puts him on the wrong side of IR35 tax rules nor the fact that the company ‘owns’ the intelligence property (knowledge) he has picked up as a result off his employment, so the company could possibly sue him for profiting from it at their expense. And he probably hasn’t also built in the cost of professional liability insurance that he will have to take out…

It would actually be up to the hiring company to determine the IR35 status unless they’re a small company, and like you say, almost certainly inside with all the tax implications.

I’d be surprised if they’re actually going to duplicate the companies IP, that would be incredibly stupid, probably more likely to be consulting on how to use the product/database in question would be my guess.

I think they’d be insane to hire them back though if they’re refusing to perform tasks they’re contracted to perform as an employee atm, there’d be no trust there.

I have created things in my employment that have been as a result of years of experience for the purpose of my job. Just because I work for my employer the intellectual property is still mine. I would certainly be taking this with me if I left. I worked hard on it.

I certainly wouldn't charge my former employer fir access to it though. We share our knowledge with eachother. I just wouldn't leave it exclusively there!

I am about to move on leaving behind some fairly substantial developments. These developments are documented in the sense that I have explained to others and created process notes on how to run processes.

What will be missing is the 'why'. Why the processes have been developed in a particular way. Where the weaknesses in the process are, what housekeeping is essential to ensure processes continue to run.

I am not Dick from IT, I would be more than happy to handover my knowledge if only my company would find someone to replace me. The problem they are finding is that they have undervalued my role. My replacement is going to cost what I have been offered for my new role (ie around 40% more than I am currently paid)

This is probably not uncommon in admin functions. Through the last decade they have been stripped to the bone. Many of these functions depend on the goodwill of the staff. People working extra hours, doing far more than their job descriptions. At some point that goodwill gets used up.

Re Dick from IT, he is probably over valuing his knowledge but OP may also be guilty of undervaluing it. It's a bit like the old joke about the TV repairman who comes in and after listening to the problem bangs the television then leaves behind a bill for £72.50. When challenged on the bill he explains that £2.50 is for banging the TV, £70 is for knowing where to bang it.

[quote sussexman]@AFewScrewsLucy you seem to have asked several times "how can they practically arrange for handover" - clearly the answer is that they can't. However, the company on the basis of what you've said absolutely can refuse to endorse the new business, will likely own the IP in the "procedure" anyway ( www.willans.co.uk/knowledge/does-my-employer-own-my-intellectual-property/) because it was developed in the course of business and funded by the company, and a smart co would have this in terms of employment anyway.

The short management answer to "can you physically make me do this" is obviously "no", The likely real answer is "Of course not, we will instruct lawyers that you are in breach of contract, sue for loss of intellectual property rights and terminate you with cause, if we find you have consulted with BigCompetitorCorp then we will enjoin them in the cases, or you can tell Sheila here how it works."[/quote]
As the employee developed the procedure during their time at the company, I presume this would apply.

This person is being incredibly short sighted. If I were management, I’d be consulting my lawyers.

I would think the company has not valued your colleague's rather niche skill set, hasn't treated them particularly well, and has now effectively shafted themselves by allowing a situation to develop whereby only one person in the entire company can perform this particular process. That's just terrible business management. I absolutely don't blame your colleague for doing what they've done. The company have been the architects of their own undoing here.

@HappyDays40

I have created things in my employment that have been as a result of years of experience for the purpose of my job. Just because I work for my employer the intellectual property is still mine. I would certainly be taking this with me if I left. I worked hard on it.

This might apply to you, I would not know. But it would be an unusual and sep if ice arrangement you have written in to your contract in that case. As a default and so in most cases, the IP belongs to the employer.

@Harlequin1088

I would think the company has not valued your colleague's rather niche skill set, hasn't treated them particularly well, and has now effectively shafted themselves by allowing a situation to develop whereby only one person in the entire company can perform this particular process. That's just terrible business management. I absolutely don't blame your colleague for doing what they've done. The company have been the architects of their own undoing here.

Exactly this. I dont know why PPs are going on about intellectual property. What is about to walk out of the door is experience.

I am about to do the same thing in my company. They have had many chances to improve my salary and have made many promises to do so in the past. In my situation I have no intention of coming back. At the moment I am taking a certain pleasure in being super helpful. Cheerfully highlighting exactly what they are going to miss.

He’s being really shortsighted and this isn’t the way to set yourself up for a consultancy career.

As the replacement or you can do is quietly get on with reverse engineering stuff. Get the supplier to support where you can, at least it’s easy when you have an end result to work backwards from.

No reverse. I'm supposed to be their replacement. I think they're being self serving. I am confident that I and the other involved colleagues know enough. This person is waltzing about telling anyone who'll listen how they've got company over a barrell etc. Just think they're a dickhead and don't want them to "win". I'm petty.

But what do you want to be the outcome? The company has two choices here - either they pay the consultancy fee, or they say ‘No thanks - we’ll take the risk’. There is no option three, where the leaver suddenly sees the light and shares the knowledge. If you’re waiting for that to happen, you’ll have a long wait.

Why shouldnt Dick from IT be self-serving? Just how much loyalty do companies show to employees? How often do companies fail to recognise the value of their employees until it is too late?

Im in a similar kind of position, in that I'm leaving at the end of the week, my skill set isn't unique, but the past several years of experience in this particular role is. My employer waited till last week to tell me who (internally) was taking over from me, and is currently trying to block me meeting with the business's client to talk through what need doing (client wants to take a small part of my role in house).

I have other complicating factors, also I'm not trying to take work away for myself. Weirdly, employer would have been more than happy for me to go and work for the client, the fact that I'm leaving altogether seems to have sent them into a spin.

OP - go see your manager today- explain dick is refusing to hand over so they the company will have no choice but to hire him as a consultant. You feel you could do this work, but Will need some training and handover. There are no handover notes, there has been no verbal handover. They are determined to deliberately drop the company in the shit in order to blackmail the company into using his new company. Really spell it out. Send an email to your boss and HR afterwards stating as discussed Dick is refusing to do a handover on X procedure and there are no handover documents available.

Its a dick move. Theres a chance if a consultant has to be hired, you might get some input into that. Id refuse to work with him.

I think employers get quite upset when employees with a number of years in role decide to leave. It upsets the natural order of things at least as they see it. They spend a lot of time convincing employees that they are virtually unemployable and that the company is doing the employee a favour in keeping them in a job.

It is very disturbing for senior managers to realise that this isn't in fact the case.

Having worked in IT it sounds like a bit more is going on here - why is this guy leaving in the first place - feeling undervalued/paid/poor working conditions?

Re the training - if expensive the company should have got him to sign to say he'd repay the cost if he left in x many months for example. Training people is part of being a good employer and is needed to keep the business going.

And yes, this is a management issue - handover notes should always be held in case the employee is unexpectedly unavailable. Team should be adequately staffed so someone more junior could be stepped up.

All management seem to see is costs but good staffing, management and training are essential. Along with HR making sure the contracts are tight.

What does it say in his contract about taking clients etc in next role?

But the processes can be done but they take longer? so they have to be done by someone who will be slower but can do them? there isn't a problem.

The company has been at fault here but there are ways round it in future. Firstly by ensuring that 2 people are either trained to the same standard as the leaver, or by ensuring that one person does the training the leaver die and makes a handbook as part of that training. And then a backup person does the procedure now and then using the handbook as a guide. To make sure it's enough.

I had this in an old job of mine, i was pretty much the go to person. When I left i did handover a handbook of how to do the basics, and i did train someone and give them some tips - it was on them to write them down (I know they didn't even though i suggested it a few times) and as a result the processes took ages, other people had to wait, but they could be done because i had made sure to handover the knowledge. (top tip for anyone doing this: break the job down into sections, train them and you both sign off that it has been done. You keep a copy, they keep a copy)

I once took over from a person like this. The manager was so ineffectual it was unbelievable.

I designed my own process and documented it and handed over to my replacement when I left because that’s what professional people do.

I said to my manager that there was no documentation, files were password protected and she didn’t give me access etc. All that nonsense.

He said ‘yeah, I asked her to stop putting passwords on files but she didn’t listen’.

Utterly bizarre.

I think your colleague is being a bit of a dick, but the company really should have thought about this, had someone else trained up etc.

My last job, when I resigned I was absolutely shafted financially by my employer. Our own HR lawyer told me that they hadn't done anything wrong legally, but morally he was appalled at their behaviour.

They then expected me to spend hours documenting and mapping all the processes and reconciliations I was responsible for, that I had designed over several years, on top of doing my day job - I would basically have been doing it in my own time. I refused - I made a list of all the various spreadsheets I used, and where the data came from and left them to it. Still no idea to this day how they sorted it all out as it was really complex! Every other job I've left I've done a proper handover, but I was so pissed off on this occasion, I just refused - my line manager was instrumental in how I'd been treated so I couldn't have cared less if it dumped her in it. She kept trying to arrange 'handover meetings' and was all like 'well how are we going to know how XYZ works after you've gone?!'. Not my problem any more, sorreeeeee.

I've never been so unprofessional in my career but they absolutely deserved it.

I’d be worrying less about your colleague and more about yourself.
You clearly work for a company with poor management, why is this? Are the incompetent, lazy or overworked.
The leaving colleague is clearly disgruntled about something, why is this? It may be that they are a dick or it could be that they have been treated really badly. Perhaps they were underpaid or developed systems in their own time.
I would be treating this as a big red flag for the company as an employer.

I would have them clear desk today and put on gardening leave immediately. They would not be hired back and i would use database company to figure out reports needed. Cheeky feckers lol

This totally depends on their contractual details. If the consultant gave a workshop when he was an employee, and he’d prepared that on work time - that belongs to them. He’s responsible for training people and handing over if that’s what’s in his job description and he has to ha d over the work he did on work time. If it’s something above and beyond then it’s just a smart move.