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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that refusing to do an handover so you can be called back as a consultant is a dick move?

155 replies

AFewScrewsLucy · 24/10/2021 20:45

Colleague handed in notice. And has outright refused to do a handover of knowledge, because they wants company to keep them on with a retainer and consultancy fees. so when a particular procedure happens, the company would have to being them back and pay them to do the work? They are leaving to start their new business in consultancy for this procedure.There is a member of staff that will be taking the role on and the procedure is quite specific to the company.
Is this person a dick, or that's just how business works etc.

OP posts:
Worriedmama32 · 24/10/2021 21:22

As part of our contracts we have a clause that covers intellectual property stating that it belongs to the company and not the individual. Is there anything like that in this persons contract? By refusing to do a handover they would be in breach of contract.

AFewScrewsLucy · 24/10/2021 21:24

@fashionSOS

Employer has paid for all training etc.

The leaving person is the one who would have had to train up anyone...and they're refusing to.... And I see no reason why they would have agreed to train even before notice.

So no one could do this before, and the employer didn't think it was a good idea to pay to train up at least two people? Still sounds short-sighted.

The person has developed this procedure on their own, using the knowledge from their paid for training.
OP posts:
PackedintheUK · 24/10/2021 21:24

The company should have made sure this knowledge was shared, documented and available to all long before this man resigned.

I have to update a "process manual" for my role annually and I get all my staff doing unique roles to do the same. It's part of our contingency planning.

Nopetryagain · 24/10/2021 21:25

This is rubbish. They are working their notice, they are still employed. It is a reasonable management instruction to provide an immediate handover. A refusal can result in disciplinary and dismissal without payment of remaining notice. The company should not engage with them as a contractor.

AFewScrewsLucy · 24/10/2021 21:25

@BobLemon

Understand the situation. All blame and consequences sit firmly with the Company for failing to capture and document processes.
So how would you force them to document the processes? Discipline them.... How? How can you actually make anyone share knowledge?
OP posts:
Singlebutmarried · 24/10/2021 21:26

As a PP said upthread, let him leave. Then his first ‘paid contract’ should be to do the handover.

Then not employ him again.

If he’s refusing to train his replacement then his attitude stinks. I’d not employ him as a consultant because of this alone.

What a douche

Flipflopblowout · 24/10/2021 21:27

The company should have a clause built into the contract of employment that a comprehensive handover will be part of the termination of employment and there should be specific time built in for this. Somebody has seen a loophole and is exploiting it.

Lostmarbles2021 · 24/10/2021 21:28

If he developed it in work hours (rather than in his free time) it’s the intellectual property of the company isn’t it?

AFewScrewsLucy · 24/10/2021 21:28

@Flipflopblowout

The company should have a clause built into the contract of employment that a comprehensive handover will be part of the termination of employment and there should be specific time built in for this. Somebody has seen a loophole and is exploiting it.
So how would you make them share that information...on a practical level?
OP posts:
Hodgehog · 24/10/2021 21:29

He’s seriously the only one that can do this procedure?

Serves them right for being so lacking in foresight.

VladmirsPoutine · 24/10/2021 21:29

I'm not saying it's right or fair but does this person have an axe to grind? There's a couple of places I've worked in the past where I really couldn't give a toss if they were left up shit creek.

rozzyraspberry · 24/10/2021 21:29

Whilst I agree you should always have a back up plan, individual is still being paid by the company and refusing to pass on knowledge gained in their role in the business.

No way would I hire them back on a consultancy basis. And they’ve burned their bridges if their consultancy business doesn’t work out.

godmum56 · 24/10/2021 21:29

I think the company are getting what they deserve for a monumentally stupid oversight.

5foot5 · 24/10/2021 21:31

This person sounds very unprofessional and I hope their shoddy little plan backfires and that your company manage fine without them. I just can't imagine behaving like that.

I recently left a job where there were several things I knew far more about than anyone else but I did everything I could to handover properly. I produced a large and detailed handover document; had one to one sessions with my replacement and made sure people knew where there were several "how to" documents I had written over the years.

Admittedly I was retiring rather than moving in to a "consultancy" role where I might want to use this knowledge to my advantage, but I still think they sound totally untrustworthy and I hope they do not get their way in this

AFewScrewsLucy · 24/10/2021 21:32

@godmum56

I think the company are getting what they deserve for a monumentally stupid oversight.
So how do you make someone share knowledge?
OP posts:
beautifullymad · 24/10/2021 21:35

My father did similar to this decades ago. The company he had worked for with great loyalty since he graduated in the 1960's was taken over and the new management treated him appallingly.

He couldn't leave due to pension restrictions in those days but they eventually, after making his life miserable for years, made him redundant. He was almost at the stage of a breakdown it had been so badly managed.

He left to start his own company. After a few months they realised that no one else had his skills or knowledge as they had made his team redundant over the years too.

They panicked and brought him back as a consultant. He charged them as he saw fit for his knowledge of the systems he had put in place. We are talking major systems that would have seen three big cities in the UK struggling. Goodness knows why they missed this when they deemed his department not worthy of continued funding.

After the way he was treated I think he had the last laugh.
No one knew his role was so essential, no one listened, no one even wanted to know until after he had left. After 30 years in the same role it was his designs and innovation the company profited from.

Technically his work and notes belonged to the company who took over. They obviously retained the systems as they were installed. They asked him to forward his notes, but my father had a photographic memory and didn't write comprehensive notes only abstract calculations, and as he had more or less been his own boss for decades this hadn't ever been an issue. The calculations were forwarded but made no sense to anyone.

He worked as a consultant until the systems he designed became obsolete, then he took retirement. It was a profitable end to a dedicated career.

I doubt his 1960's employment contract would have had anything about intellectual property rights to procedures. It was quite basic back then.

Zig27 · 24/10/2021 21:36

Every company I have ever worked for I have created a user guide from scratch as it helps me to retain my notes. It shocks me that companies don’t have written processes in place where to locate things and how to use the system. Plus it’s not fair to dump or burden the workload on innocent colleagues if you leave. I left a temp job on Friday and gave the manager and colleague a paper and electronic copy user guide and asked them to pass to the next person. I did this as I know my colleague is overburdened as it is and it’s not right for management to expect my colleague to train the new person up without a user guide.

MargosKaftan · 24/10/2021 21:37

You make having clear handover procedures and paperwork available as part of someone's job. You link it to any bonus on offer - that normally gets stuff sorted ASAP.

BTW - DHs colleague tried something similar, was certain they'd have to get him back in. They didn't. Funnily enough, lots of people knew how to use certain systems and with a bit of time, could work out how they were set up, so as a point, they didn't use him. The colleagues who worked unscrambling it all hated him. Small world and all that, that were asked for unofficial references for his consultancy business. They were far from glowing.

Its very common for people to try to make themselves irreplaceable. It rarely works.

ChrisS36 · 24/10/2021 21:38

They can’t refuse to provide training documentation that would be covered by expected duties within the role. If they refuse they could be sacked and refused a reference.

But agree it’s poor management to get to this situation.

titchy · 24/10/2021 21:38

So how do you make someone share knowledge?

Seriously? 'So Sandra you've been here three months now and seem to have got the hang of the Splot process. Before our next one to one could you make some notes on the process and we can go through them?'

Not difficult.

Namenic · 24/10/2021 21:39

The company should have planned contingency - when critical things are developed, they should be documented and shared - for business continuity purposes. If someone refuses to do this, then earlier on, they should have disciplinary processes.

HOWEVER the employee sounds awful and I would not hire them as a contractor, even if they were cheaper than others. Why would I want them to develop more things that they then won’t share? Get a different contractor who can work with the rest of the team to reverse engineer what was done.

Eddielzzard · 24/10/2021 21:41

Poor management yes, but also a stupid move for the stbex-employee as they'll be starting their consultancy on a very bad footing. That sort of attitude never pays long term.

Lostmarbles2021 · 24/10/2021 21:43

AFewScrewsLucy

Flipflopblowout
The company should have a clause built into the contract of employment that a comprehensive handover will be part of the termination of employment and there should be specific time built in for this. Somebody has seen a loophole and is exploiting it.
So how would you make them share that information...on a practical level?

It sounds, from other posts, not my own expertise, like the options are:

  • while they are still in employment instruct them to and if they don’t then go through disciplinary process to dismiss them and stop paying them (no one wants being sacked on their resume)
  • see if it is the companies intellectual property - if it is threaten to sue -
  • or wait til they leave, hire them back to train up other staff with a very tight and clear contract and set of outcomes.
Fetarabbit · 24/10/2021 21:43

Reading your recent responses is this a reverse? Would explain why you're so invested in it too.

Hodgehog · 24/10/2021 21:47

You don’t you train 2 or more people at the same time. It’s pretty simple.