Is your mental health your problem or your employers problem?

[donemeover]

Genuine question. At what point does mental health and well-being stop with the employer and become the responsibility of employee?

An person I manage has said now three times in the last few months said they cannot cope due to stress - so each time we have changed either their job role or working hours to accommodate and suit.

This person never says they are stressed or asks for help etc and then just comes and says they can't do it anymore.

I'm struggling with where to draw the line - as in, if someone is struggling and work, constantly offered support and asked if they're ok and never voice their struggles - is it their problem and perhaps do we need to part ways or keep bending to accommodate?

The person is a very valued member, but this keeps happening and I just don't know if I'm flogging a dead horse and perhaps we should (mutually) part ways, or at least have the discussion, or do we try and accommodate another role for them?

Whenever I ask specifically what is stressing them they don't seem to be open, there's only so much I can do. I just don't know if it's me or them, hoping for some opinions and want to help them but also feeling a bit frustrated at how they're handling things.

Have you engaged occupational health? As an employer you should support your colleague and put in place reasonable adjustments. But if the employee cannot manage the role even with reasonable adjustments, you'd be justified in going down the capability route and ultimately, dismissing them.

I think there’s definitely a line in which you can legally say. We tried so many reasonable adjustments to which they can’t fulfil the role

Surely they’re just trying to hope that you keep helping them with no come back maybe?

Firstly Mental health is an illness. Have you got the OH involved ? They should be your first port of call. They are doctors who will write a report for you with recommendations. In a way they are a go between medicals. Because you can’t question the employee about what steps they are taking to help themselves. It is through OH that help may be offered . My previous place of work offered a scheme of 6 weeks of private talking therapy . Not sure how big the workplace is and whether you offer similar.

I think the responsibility lies with both. It's not a one or the other type scenario.
Employers absolutely must do all they can to ensure their peoples' mental and physical health are cared for with good work environment, reasonable adjustments made where necessary, well trained management, and resources for when anyone needs support.
However it's also on the employee to make sure they are looking after themselves and use resources etc to help themselves, and of course speaking out when they need help.
To give you an example- if someone is really struggling with work because they stay up until 3am every morning and it's making them stressed, then the workplace should absolutely be able to help with adjustments where necessary, but the staff member should also be doing all they can to make sure they are ready and capable of working when they are due to start.
I've probably rambled way too much here and it could have likely been said in two sentences lol but this would be my thinking

It is a personal responsibility to manage your own health. It is the employer's duty to take reasonable steps to ensure that work is not impacting negatively on staff wellbeing, and to make reasonable adjustments for those who have long term mental health conditions.

I think you need to set some clear parameters around what is reasonable and what is not, from your perspective, and to be very clear about your expectations, e.g. what the employee should do if they are struggling, what steps you expect them to take to manage their own stress levels. Be clear about what support you are able to provide, but also about what your red lines are. And ask them what strategies they are putting in place in order to manage their condition so that it does not prevent them from doing their job.

We are very small team there's five of us. I guess what I'm saying is less about the legalities if the situation but more about how much help you expect from your employer when you keep telling them you cannot/do not want to do the job anymore?

More opinion based than legal. As feeling frustrated that they don't speak up when they're struggling rather than let it get to this point for the third time?

Or am I expecting too much?

My point is, this person never once come to me and says they are struggling, they just throw the towel in and want to change job/cut down hours.

It's their approach that's frustrating

I'm never sure how to manage these either, especially the ones where something outside work (bereavement, divorce, family problems or illness) are leading to them being unable to manage work stress.

We always aim to be supportive, but surely there does come a point when the staff member needs to deal with it.

IME whenever these kinds of issues are referred to OH, the report just repeats back when staff member told them, usually that the absence is unavoidable, without any useful actions for the employer to take.

It’s the responsibility of the person themselves to look after their own well-being, it has to start with them, alongside what you do as an employer. We all have to ‘self care’ .
You have got that role to ensure you have well-being included in your business processes and will introduce changes and support for staff, but I think as employees they have a part to play too. If you have made reasonable adjustments and supported them then it might be time to have a more honest conversation about what’s happening?
When you made the changes you did before in hours and job role was there a review of these regularly afterwards an ‘ are these working’ type conversation for them to say yes or no? In your organisation is there a regular performance review to talk about this ?
If this person is a valued employee it’s important to have the conversation to say that but also that they have xx job and yiu have made yyy adjustments but if this still isn’t helping then maybe they need to find something else. Essentially it might get to a place where the right job fit isn’t available anymore

If they're saying that they cannot/don't want to do their job any more, then I'd be looking at an exit strategy. Have you asked them what they want from you?

Perhaps they would actually like you to go down the capability route because they won't be eligible for benefits if they intentionally make themselves unemployed?

@VeganCheesePlease I agree with what you said, and I rambled more than you trying to say the same with far less success!

@AlexaShutUp I haven't asked them what they want from me but that's a very key point you make I should have that conversation.

It's always me coming up with the solutions - as I feel like is my duty to but I should ask them what they want me to do too. It's not solely to me to provide the solutions when this keeps repeatedly happening

It's impossible to say from a post like this.

You need to engage Occ Health and get an assessment from them about what reasonable adjustments could be made and take it from there.

Yeah, put the onus back on the individual. You can't fix this situation. Ask them what support they need, and then assess whether you can provide that support or not.

As an employee in a similar position at the moment, it might be you causing the stress and they don’t know how to go about saying that politely. Just a thought (although I’m aware I might just be projecting!!)

I think what I'm getting at - for future too is am i expecting too much for people to speak up when they struggle? Is this a basic expectation of an employee or am I being unreasonable to expect this from someone? Someone I felt I had a fairly good working relationship ship with?

My MH is caused by my employer, no staff, no cover during covid lockdowns and when lockdowns finished, manager who had far too much work and expected me to know what my job was even though it was a different job to one id been doing. Different way of working and manager would rather shout at me or ignore me for hours !! I’m now on medication for anxiety and depression and i lay this at this managers door.
Different manager now and I’m much better at my job (same job as last year) because I’m listened to and Elden as a human not as someone who can (definitely can not) do 20 different things at the same time

@NotAnotherPushyMum that's a fair point. You're right, it could be me.

I've gone over an analysed this many times. I still feel that someone should speak up when they cannot Cope?

My job is to manage I'm not psychic.

I felt they were overwhelmed at times (the nature of the jobs is stressful) but I offer support constantly - in terms of do you need someone to delegate tasks to etc etc

They've never once ever asked for help, I find that strange and bizarre

You’re leaping to the idea of ‘parting ways’ by mutual agreement. Almost never happens.

And saying you don’t want to discuss legal aspects of the situation: this is important.

If he has a mental health condition that seeks likely to meet the legal definition of a disability, ‘reasonable’ adjustments are needed. That doesn’t mean saying yes to anything asked for.

@donemeover

I think what I'm getting at - for future too is am i expecting too much for people to speak up when they struggle? Is this a basic expectation of an employee or am I being unreasonable to expect this from someone? Someone I felt I had a fairly good working relationship ship with?

It depends. It can be difficult for people to speak up sometimes. You need to create a culture in which they feel safe to say that they're struggling, and in which there are opportunities for them to have that conversation. Not saying that you don't do this already, but we can't really say either way.

Whether or not he ‘speaks up’ earlier isn’t a key issue.

@Dozer

Whether or not he ‘speaks up’ earlier isn’t a key issue.

It is because do I need to be more forceful in asking people when they're struggling in future?

Perhaps forceful isn't the right word! Asking if someone needs help I guess is different to asking someone are you struggling?

Perhaps I need to change my approach?

I was always led to believe if I offer help and someone doesn't take it, they are fine. But I'm obviously wrong in that assumption and I want to know if this is reasonable? To have the assumption in the first place?

I feel like you need to empower them to help themselves and come up with their own solutions.

At the moment it feels like the dynamic is that you're their carer / rescuer and they are playing the helpless "victim".

Also, we don't have occupational health and don't plan to.

Legally where occupational health doesn't exist we are supposed to involve employee and their doctor.

They haven't sought medical advice/not on meds or taking treatment - so not sure what the doctor can do if they're not involving them.

Therefore we have to deal with this directly with the employee