Is your mental health your problem or your employers problem?

[donemeover]

Genuine question. At what point does mental health and well-being stop with the employer and become the responsibility of employee?

An person I manage has said now three times in the last few months said they cannot cope due to stress - so each time we have changed either their job role or working hours to accommodate and suit.

This person never says they are stressed or asks for help etc and then just comes and says they can't do it anymore.

I'm struggling with where to draw the line - as in, if someone is struggling and work, constantly offered support and asked if they're ok and never voice their struggles - is it their problem and perhaps do we need to part ways or keep bending to accommodate?

The person is a very valued member, but this keeps happening and I just don't know if I'm flogging a dead horse and perhaps we should (mutually) part ways, or at least have the discussion, or do we try and accommodate another role for them?

@nanbread

I feel like you need to empower them to help themselves and come up with their own solutions.

At the moment it feels like the dynamic is that you're their carer / rescuer and they are playing the helpless "victim".

This is exactly how it feels, which is why I'm asking is they're being unreasonable now?

I feel like they are but also trying to keep an open mind

There's 2 different sets of responsibilities.
The employee has a responsibility to look after their own health and wellbeing. They ought to be speaking to a doctor, seeking an IAPT referral, engaging in self care behaviours, speaking to relevant colleagues at appropriate times if they are struggling so that adjustments can be made.

The manager has a responsibility to make reasonable adjustments where appropriate and to respond professionally to information that is shared with them.

If an employee is saying nothing, getting to fire-fighting mode, expecting rescuing, the manager makes changes, the employee does nothing to move forward, they say nothing, then another crisis happens and this cycle continues then my gut instinct is the employee isn't doing their part.

As a manager in your situation I would seek HR advice and request a referral to occupational health.

* My point is, this person never once come to me and says they are struggling, they just throw the towel in and want to change job/cut down hours.*

^So the employee has done this 3 times now. Seems to me they are taking the piss now.

It is the employer’s responsibility to make reasonable amendments however if the individual is not capable of performing the job as has been undertaken in their contract the unfortunately there must come a time where they have to leave.

It’s a shame for them but it’s no different to agreeing to work nights and then having childcare issues, or getting a job carrying boxes and your back gives way and you can’t lift anymore, or working on a checkout and your eyesight declines.

If he cannot do the job then ultimately that is his responsibility. It is not fair for the rest of the team to handle their workload and this colleague’s or for the management team constantly having to readjust the workload.

I would contact OH or HR and get their opinion and then agree a meeting with the employee. State the adjustments you have made/are able to make and outline what they need to do. If they cannot meet what is required of them then unfortunately you may need to begin the process of redundancy.

It’s sad but it’s just one of those things. At the end of the day you have a full team to manage and not just this one individual.

If an employee is saying nothing, getting to fire-fighting mode, expecting rescuing, the manager makes changes, the employee does nothing to move forward, they say nothing, then another crisis happens and this cycle continues then my gut instinct is the employee isn't doing their part.

This is exactly what is happening you've summarised it incredibly well.

I'm fed up with it, but also value and respect the person involved I think that's what makes it difficult

@waterfallgirl lol its tough getting everything you want to say out in a sentence or two

If this has only happened over a period of three months or so I would not view this as repeated incidents of stress, it's clearly all down to the same thing.
If they saw their doctor they'd probably be signed off so be careful what you wish for! I would agree they need to be part of the solutions but I think a lot of people won't admit to how they are feeling until they are at breaking point, I don't think that is unusual.

Are you having regular 1-1s with the employee where you talk about health and wellbeing? I would be doing that and then writing up notes of the meeting including a statement that "I asked xx about their well-being and they raised no issues" etc and keep doing it, (for everyone as part of normal business) and regularly ask and note down about how the adjustments are working out. If they keep saying fine fine all fine then it helps to clarify that you are offering support which you deem to be meeting the need. If they don't raise issues then you don't need to solve them. If they do you ask what change they are seeking

Get them to agree the written notes. I do this with all staff and they very often come in handy down the line

I would also recommend OH too as it takes the pressure off you directly and gives an outside perspective. You can buy one offs if you don't want to contract /employ.

Depends if the stress/mental health problem is being caused by work/work environment/culture at work.

I don’t think this person trying to deal with it on their own but ultimately needing help should count against them. Perhaps they (correctly) thought that talking about how they felt/asking for help would make work question how tenable their continued employment was which is why they let it all build up until they couldn’t cope anymore.

Deciding to mutually part ways under these circumstances sounds a lot like constructive dismissal tbh.

Is the extra effort to support this struggling colleague a preferable option to paying out at a tribunal?

@xksismybestletter with work from home and Covid, one to ones specifically to ask about well-being have been few and far between I'm all honesty.

When I say offering help it's usually In passing or if I can see there having a busy week.

I'll explain to them to block time out if they need it to catch-up etc that kind of thing

Could you arrange a fortnightly catch up to check in with them? Maybe ask HR advice on this so it's very clearly supportive.
My worry from their current attitude is that supportive measures to check in and open dialogue might become twisted by them to be unsupportive if they don't actually want support and would rather maintain the victim role.

I am wondering what they would say when you ask them what would be their ideal position?

If you were talking about involving their doctor (as a replacement if OH), what would they say?

I agree with 35VeganCheesePlease.

Have you asked your employee what they are doing about their stress. Have they seen their GP? That should be their immediate medical contact not OH, they will just advise you to accommodate adjustments requested.
From what you say you have tried to support them... what are they doing about it?

What is he asking to be changed with respect to the role and/or working hours?

His options are to request changes, do the role as is, or to leave.

lol it’s not like any of those examples at all. You can’t sack your checkout staff for loosing their sign, that’s disability discrimination. You would need to make adjustments for there disability like larger text on the till screen and so on. You would probably also need to do a health and safety assessment to check that the set up of your tills and lighting hadn’t contributed to sight issues for staff.

Same with the warehouse guy hurting his back. A workplace should have proper training and procedures in place to prevent such injuries. You would need to prove that the employee deliberately flouted procedure when the back injury occurred.

*Sight

[quote donemeover]@xksismybestletter with work from home and Covid, one to ones specifically to ask about well-being have been few and far between I'm all honesty.

When I say offering help it's usually In passing or if I can see there having a busy week.

I'll explain to them to block time out if they need it to catch-up etc that kind of thing [/quote]
It's difficult to tell from this, but do you have regularly scheduled 1:1s or supervision with staff you manage? Well-being checks should form part of every supervision session with a staff member, alongside discussing their workload, progress, training needs etc. They should be more frequent with someone who has changed their role, particularly due to stress.

This would be when you would talk about how effective the changes have been in addressing their stress, what else they are doing to support their well-being, what else the company can do etc.

@Tilltheend99

lol it’s not like any of those examples at all. You can’t sack your checkout staff for loosing their sign, that’s disability discrimination. You would need to make adjustments for there disability like larger text on the till screen and so on. You would probably also need to do a health and safety assessment to check that the set up of your tills and lighting hadn’t contributed to sight issues for staff.

Same with the warehouse guy hurting his back. A workplace should have proper training and procedures in place to prevent such injuries. You would need to prove that the employee deliberately flouted procedure when the back injury occurred.

Apologies if my examples were ambiguous, my point was that if an employee develops health conditions that make them undertaking the job they were employed for impossible then the employer has every right to initiate redundancy.

If the employer has made adjustments and they still cannot do the job and occupational health agrees they cannot do the job then you can dismiss them on the grounds of illness.

It sounds this is the case for the individual if they consistently cannot perform their job. If OH agree and the employee cannot take proactive steps to handle the workload then letting them go can really be the only option

It is hard to judge without specific information about the job and the adjustments you have offered.

Or what @xksismybestletter said.

It might be a sensible idea to start having monthly one to ones with the individual so you can keep this in check.

I think weekly 1:1 support is more appropriate for someone who is expressing the kind of issues OP describes.

It sounds like you aren't in a position to give them much support OP but I would try to prioritise this if you do want to keep them.

@MrsPinkCock @bluebeck yes I agree thank you.

I think this is where I have failed in all of this.

I was probably your employee a couple of years ago. I took on a new role, one I had done previously but not for 9 years.
I was thrown into the role with no updated training and expected to pick up projects straightaway. It was in an area I knew nothing about, in fact no one in my team had any knowledge of it so I had nowhere to turn for help.
I felt useless and a hindrance.
I didn't ask for help... why? Because I knew the question would be what do you need? I had no idea what I needed, that was the problem.
Even when I asked for specific support/questions no one could really help me as no one knew tge answers.
I was in such a low place.
When it did all come out guess what the first question was? What do you need.......

There was a really interesting discussion in a Netflix programme (I think?!?)

About a guy who was in a wheelchair. The building had steps up and no lift. There was no reasonable way that this guy couldn’t get there. Nor could his job make any adjustments to the actual building as such.

It was a lot of to and from. At the time he couldn’t work from hone as the files were too sensitive. It really showed how hard it is for both companies to work. Eventually he took them to court. Because he felt that’s why they’d dismissed him

Can’t remember the outcome. It was super interesting

I’d definitely get some legal advice.

If it was a broken leg for example. They’d break their leg. They’d have physio. Maybe have surgery etc. Which is all THEIR responsibility. Your role would be right. We can give you a special seat. Work from home.

But if the employee kept repeatedly breaking his leg. Due to a sport he does. When does that line go from. Wait. We can’t keep supporting you to keep breaking your leg. As such.

It’s certainly a great discussion point!