XH vs DC phone wars

[MahMahMahMahCorona]

XH keeps threatening to remove DCs phones if he catches them texting me when they're with him. (We have had issues just recently where he cloned their phones and operating some covert surveillance on them even when they were with me 🤦🏼‍♀️).

DC11 & DC10 have been getting more and more distressed by the behaviour their 'D'F is exhibiting: DC10 called me last night at 8.40pm, and had to hang up immediately because his father was furious that he called to speak with me.

When home, DC have access to their phones within "normal" waking hours (apart from at school when I limit their Apps). They play Pokemon Go, and chat with friends whilst gaming, DC11 uses WhatsApp to chat with school friends, and Satchel One for prep - a lot of school work is done with the help of YouTube, PPT presentations, Word etc - so he has access to his phone quite a lot.

XH has always stuck religiously to (mediated) Tuesday / Thursday / Sunday phone calls, and rarely deviates from this timetable. So over the past 4 years, this is what DC have come to expect. I have in the past told XH that mobiles are a two-way thing, however he rarely initiates conversations out of these days, and when he does, it's up to the DC as to whether they respond.

Thing is with XH, nothing is ever good enough no matter what I suggest, and yet he is never forthcoming with a solution. The fact the DC don't contact him regularly is apparently my fault. They don't get back until Tuesday and I know certainly that DC10 is upset.

What more can I do? AIBU to think he is actively damaging the already pretty dire relationship he has with our children, by behaving in this way in front of them? He loves to bully and intimidate those who are smaller / more vulnerable than him (animals included), and has a startling inability to co-parent, so we parallel parent.

Is contact court ordered?

Hi @StrictlyAFemaleFemale - yes, EOW and half holidays (albeit just 2 weeks in summer). Nothing about phone contact since (shuttle) mediation which broke down July 2020.

Oh thats annoying. My first suggestion is to stop suggesting solutions.

How much evidence does it take to get a court order changed? What evidence? Find that out and start collecting.

Thats all I got. Sorry I cant be more help.

I'd honestly give the kids a second phone if they weren't being allowed to contact you, but there's a risk of him being even angrier if he finds that.

Who pays for the phones? He presumably cannot stop the children using what you are paying for? If the phones are in your name, then there must be someone you can complain to about the surveillance?

I would talk to the DC about what they want regarding contact with their father and ability to leave/call you on request. Then, I’d go back to court and fight for it. They are at an age where the court will take their wishes into consideration. Although not yet at the age that the courts will automatically support their wishes. I think he is being very unreasonable to not allow them to contact you while with him...I think the court would order him to allow them to contact you and even request to go back home to you. Go and fight for your DC.

@StrictlyAFemaleFemale - I absolutely agree that suggesting solutions is totally counter productive and simply increases my frustration. Everything I suggest is ignored, and recently I’ve received an email (complete projection) saying “When I have previously tried to discuss phone use with you, you have refused to discuss. But I would be happy to have another go.” - he has never, ever engaged in discussions about phones.

I provided an entire court bundle which included paediatric consultant reports about emotional harm and attachment disorder - it was all dismissed. Court call it a “difference in parenting style”, he even got away with “physical chastisement within the normal realms of punishment” - he hits them too.

@girlmom21 - thank you I have thought about this, he unpacks their suitcases each time they go - they have little to absolutely no privacy when there. But it may well be something I need to explore further.

@thegcatsmother - I bought and paid for the phones. I have suggested that if he wants to, he can furnish them with phones too, to be used to contact the children when they are at home, however he’s ignored that suggestion too. I spoke to the police (there’s a thread about this on here!) about the surveillance and we now have measures in place to stop him getting into the phones.

@PlanDeRaccordement - I have a dreadful feeling the only way we are going to be able to sort this out is to return to mediation (shuttle) and then court for a variation. It’s so boring and such a bloody waste of time and money, but you’re right: I have to advocate for the DC. They just like to be able to check in with me every now and then like a security blanket. Eldest DC texts me every lunch time (just into Yr7) to tell me what he’s had for lunch - it’s just a way for him to know I’m at the end of the phone (he has anxiety). They are bewildered by their father’s behaviour, and have previously said he can be quite scary / intimidating. Sadly he’s just a bully and even more sadly, the DC are picking up on this, and resenting him for it.

Ugh. Eldest son has just text to say his dad has cloned their phones. Again.

This is just bloody ridiculous. 🤦🏼‍♀️

He's hitting them? That's awful. No wonder your son has anxiety. Can you go back to court asap and get supervised contact or something?

I think they need to keep their proper phones at home with you, and just take a burner phone when they see him, so they can get contact with you and possibly a couple of trusted friends, when they need to.

I know it's awful, and shouldn't be necessary, but it's the only way I can think of to manage it.

If he is cloning phones that you own you could report it to the phone company and police.it depends on what the fallout with the DC would be.

I would suggest buying them a cheap brick phone which goes with them to Dads and keep their real phones away from him; but they might not want to do that because they would be out of touch with their friends.

Honestly I think you need to sound out whether they want to carry on seeing him and carry on having overnight visits and take it back to mediation / court.

When will they be old enough (in the court's eyes) to decide if they want this level of contact? He sounds abusive.

Thank you so so much for responding - come to think of it, eldest told me recently that he's not even allowed to text / call his mates when they're there. It's outrageous that their dad thinks this is normal behaviour.

It seems that their father is intent on instilling his own emotional sterility / inability to form healthy friendships and relationships, on our children. I have been in touch with our original mediator this morning to see if they would take us back on to iron this all out before Christmas. I can't imagine they will want to go on Christmas Eve until NYE unless they are reassured they can get in touch with me more than three times that week, and particularly on Christmas Day.

Can you get social workers involved? I don't think your children should be subjected to him if possible.

I'm not very tech but do any of the watches make calls or text? I was looking at GPS trackers which can make emergency calls, they could keep one in a pocket or pencil case?

@Catawaul

I'm not very tech but do any of the watches make calls or text? I was looking at GPS trackers which can make emergency calls, they could keep one in a pocket or pencil case?

I was just thinking the very same: same as you - I'm not sure one can reply to texts on a watch. I shall have a look.

@Chewieboora

Can you get social workers involved? I don't think your children should be subjected to him if possible.

I've just emailed the multi agency safeguarding hub with whom I have had several conversations dating back to 2018. Thank you.

I think you are going to have to go down formal route and court again. I’m sure you are already documenting everything. He’s a controlling bully. Their wishes will be taken into account. Not being able to text your mum and having all your personal belongings rifled through age 11 is unacceptable.

@Sparkletastic

When will they be old enough (in the court's eyes) to decide if they want this level of contact? He sounds abusive.

Generally "wishes and feelings" get heard around the age of 12. Whether they are acted upon is another thing entirely. CAFCASS would interview both children if we returned to court (I asked them not to last time - the children had been through enough / far too much (ECV / lockdown) to add yet another adult they needed to speak to into the picture. I regret that now.)

I think with the cloning and surveillance he is trying to do I would involve social services and also the Police. This is harrassment if nothing else and it is damaging the children

@Dixiechickonhols

I think you are going to have to go down formal route and court again. I’m sure you are already documenting everything. He’s a controlling bully. Their wishes will be taken into account. Not being able to text your mum and having all your personal belongings rifled through age 11 is unacceptable.

Their father refuses to provide anything other than basic toiletries at his house hence the suitcases. I've highlighted that this is hugely damaging for children, to have to literally move their stuff between the houses, but he tells me this is what CMS is for. I do it for the DC, as otherwise they would literally wear the same pants / socks / trousers / shirts for a weekend / week.

@picklemewalnuts

I think they need to keep their proper phones at home with you, and just take a burner phone when they see him, so they can get contact with you and possibly a couple of trusted friends, when they need to.

I know it's awful, and shouldn't be necessary, but it's the only way I can think of to manage it.

Sadly I think this is going to be the only option - and I believe it's exactly what their father wants. A brick phone so they can't send memes and silly pictures of cats to their mum. Because laughing and being silly is obviously threatening to his relationship with them. 🤦🏼‍♀️

@Chewieboora

He's hitting them? That's awful. No wonder your son has anxiety. Can you go back to court asap and get supervised contact or something?

The court, and the police, tell me that this falls within the realms of "normal physical chastisement". It's illegal to smack / hit a child in Scotland, not here in England. Terrifying, quite frankly.

He sounds awful your poor DC and you too:
Definitely back to mediation and court and last resort report him to SS he hits the children controls them that’s emotional abuse especially if they are scared of him hope you resolve it OP