Do I need to start saving so I can actually use a heat pump in my house?

[Wisteriac43]

I live in a detached Georgian house - we've done some decorating, the windows have secondary glazing, loft is insulated but the walls are solid. Am I the only one slightly horrified thinking we will all have to move to heatpumps? I think there is quite a bit we'd need to do so it would be even partially effective and I can see it costing atleast £50k to do all the insulation, double glazed windows, floor heating. We are trying to save for pensions and to help DC at uni, but are we instead going to have to put everything into having a house where a heat pump works?!

I had a new gas boiler installed in January and it's guaranteed until 2034.

When the plumber was here recently doing another job, we talked about air source heating. He reckoned I'd need virtually every wall of the (1930's semi) house covered by radiators to heat it effectively using air source heating, and then where would I put the furniture?

And there's nowhere to put a hot water tank without sacrificing a considerable amount of space. The only feasible place for this would be in the 2nd bedroom, and then it would reduce the size from a double to a single.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot of people stockpiling combi boilers in the run up to 2035. It all sounds hideously expensive, and as I'll be almost 80 by then, I doubt if I could cope with all the upheaval.

With a bit of luck, my current boiler might outlive me.

He also said that there'd be issues with the floor, which isn't solid but traditional boards with a void beneath. He reckons that to insulate that effectively would mean that it wouldn't "breathe" and that this could lead to damp problems.

@Porcupineintherough

Yes poor you. We should definitely condemn the planet to a 4 degree rise in temperature with all the resultant misery to avoid you having to insulate your house, or trade it in for a more fuel efficient model.

Eh? I'm not sure the OP is trying to avoid insulating her home or switching to a more fuel efficient type of heating, she is just concerned about being able to afford it. Personally I would love to have more environmentally friendly heating and hot water, but firstly I can't afford to buy a heat pump, and secondly I live in a flat so there isn't anywhere for one to go, and I don't own the walls or the roof so can't just get my flat more insulated, the freeholder would need to do that (it's pretty well insulated already though so possibly may not need more).

My plan has always be to get a new gas boiler just before they’re banned and then not worry about it for 20 years. However I suspect the govt will soon put horrible tariffs on the price of gas and it will become so expensive everyone will be clamouring to get rid of them.

I’m in a 3 bed solid wall semi. So will need to do a lot of expensive insulation. Can’t say I have the option of downsizing but in theory while I could sell and buy a modern 3 bed semi who will want to buy an old, solid wall, Non insulated house? They’re going to become unsellable quite quickly. Or at least lose a lot of their value.

Agree with the poster who says green hydrogen could be the solution here. The technology is really developing and you could have hydrogen using the existing gas pipelines into your house and not even notice the difference.

Bearing in mind its 2021, and the nature of politics just the last 3 years, I refuse to worry about what will be a political decision which may or may not actually be taken. Its the idiot that is currently in charge grandstanding in front of other world leaders. If we no nothing else, we do know that he will say whatever seems needed at the time with little concern for how or whether it will happen.

@Ozgirl75 - I don’t know very much about them but a quick search on the government website states that new wood burners only emit 2g of particles per kg of wood burnt whereas older models emit 4g per kg.

To supplement my previous message, I also saw in my search, that if you buy a house with a wood burner from before 2003, then you need to get rid of it or update it within 12 months and there are around 700 000 wood burners in Denmark 😀

How many people are going to be able to actually afford this? Along with all the other costs that are going up? .It will bankrupt most of the country.

Just wait for the the energy price cap to go up again in spring, Many people’s energy bills will end up being as high as their mortgage. Interest rates are bound to increased in response to inflation. Council tax is going up because (many local Councils are on the brink of going under after Covid). The cost of everything is going up.

I believe this is nothing more than a vanity project for our buffoon of a pm. So many people will be at risk of losing their homes after what we’ve gone through and he chooses now to announce this. I also heard it will be linked to mortgages so that they can force it onto people.

Next in line will be car drivers - alright for Boris and his city chums to go without a car but try living in my area without one…

@Dontgetyerknicksinatwist will linking it to mortgages mean that all the £1 million houses that are EPC D in my area become unsaleable. Or will their owners all be able to convert to EPC C (most of them can be converted). Not all will have disposable income esp those bought over 30 years ago. In the past, having an older home was sought after, they were also considerably more expensive, could this be the turning point if they aren't even mortgageable?

Whilst the whole detached Georgian thing sounds wanky the OP isn't virtue signalling or being smug, for goodness sake, the British housing stock is in great part ancient, a result of massive expansion in the cities due to the industrial revolution. Pretty much all of the 280,000 inhabitants of my London Borough live in houses from 1850 onwards, often split into multiple flats. Rurally too the correlation between age and grandeur is nonsense - my mum and dad's house dates back to the Domesday book and is DEFINITELY not grand being a decrepit old farmhouse made up of a few tiny dark rooms on a dank and draughty Moor.
An enormous number of such houses are listed, so can't be retrofitted with external cladding as PP suggests and applying treatments like this to the ornate frontage of Victorian housing stock won't work either... even if it could you'd have to get all freeholders/leaseholders in each building (of which there are hundreds of thousands) to agree which given most can't collaborate to repaint the shared hallway is unlikely to happen. Not to mention the lack of outside space for heat pumps.
The answer probably lies in a huge expansion of excellent modern appropriately designed housing stock... but I'm not holding my breath...

Thanks @EdwinsActsOfKindness that’s helpful.
I’m assuming they’ll be some kind of exemption for listed houses anyway. They’re so strict with what they’re allowed to do, I can’t see them allowing a massive box to be added on, and they can’t add insulation as wattle and daub, with lime plaster, needs to “breathe”.
Mind you, presumably properties like this are a small fraction of total homes in the U.K.

@Wilkolampshade I am sure the politicians know. Boris owns a Victorian house in Camberwel with carrie, Carrie's bachelorette conversion flat in Camberwell was so poorly insulated her neighbours could hear every word, Sajid javid lives in Fulham (probably in an old house too), gove used to live in north Kensington in a period house too, probably still lives in a period house. If you live in an affluent part of central London or suburban london，you don't have much of a choice. These neighbourhoods were established years ago. In fact it is tower Hamlets that has the most energy efficient housing stock, my DH once said the mark of a poor area is how often it is 'regenerated', as in the local inhabitants have little choice in whether buildings are torn down and then rebuilt again

I think they think they can throw money at the problem. In truth, if you have a £1 million house, not installing a heat pump cos of the cost seems a little silly if you ignore the fact that most of their owners bought them when they were far cheaper. I don't know the mechanics on how technically difficult it is- my understanding is it needs to be insulated within an inch of its life in order to work and people are put off by the cost- but Boris and his friends can afford it. Also their houses are probably not listed.

A heat pump is not the heating solution for older properties. You would have to insulate the walls either internally or externally and this is not really an option for period houses unless you don't mind loosing all the features.
Heat pumps work at lower circuit temps 45'C so pipe system and surface area of radiators need to be increased to achieve the same heat output.
Unless you insulate well then the system will struggle to maintain heat and will run constantly so your bills will be high. ( They provide a constant low heat rather than bursts of heat like gas CH)
The other factor is Air source HP remove heat from the ambient air. If the external air temperature drops below 5'C then they become very inefficientand consume more kW electric than they generate in kW of heat.
For a large house you will also require an additional heat source, pellet stove etc.
It is a very ill concieved Government plan since the system does not suit the UK old housing stock. I am still unaware of where all this spare electric capacity is coming from in terms of generation, and distribution for the national grid. Most Gas boilers are 25kW so if you add this consumption to the grid along with charging or electric cars then the grid will meltdown fairly quickly.

@MintJulia thanks, not sure why that didn't occur to me that that's what people meant. Bad day

@onlychildhamster yes, I'm sure you're probably right re Boris and chums but for the life of me I can't see what their strategy might really be on this... Although ascribing any kind of strategy is probs a bit of a leap. Re listing, pretty much everything pre 1850 is, so anything Georgian.
On the regeneration front in London - all a bit skewed by damage done in the blitz where large areas were cleared and moved to social housing post bombing along the docks and in the East End.

Reading through all the posts, it makes me wonder why they are only announcing this about heat pumps. Why not include solar as well? I mean, cynical me thinks well why would they, it's not as if they actually give a shit about the planet, but if they were going to give grants for two or three green options then people are more likely to find one that works with their particular home.

@CatNamedEaster

Reading through all the posts, it makes me wonder why they are only announcing this about heat pumps. Why not include solar as well? I mean, cynical me thinks well why would they, it's not as if they actually give a shit about the planet, but if they were going to give grants for two or three green options then people are more likely to find one that works with their particular home.

They’ve probably all bought shares in heat source pump companies. Or taking bungs.

Exactly that @CatNamedEaster, it'll take a variety of options for different types of housing.

I had a heat pump I'm my old house, it was rubbish, and expensive. House was 1950s, radiators would nearly get warm, take ages to heat up a few degrees and you can't have heating and hot water st the same time so it's pretty annoying. Unless you own a new build that's properly insulated thwy aren't any good.

This whole debate feels largely like government-sponsored froth to me.

There are such clear drawbacks to heat-pump tech whether air or ground for such a huge proportion of UK housing stock that it would be majorly impractical, not to mention impossible, for millions of people. And of course there are/will be other options, green ones, for getting heating power to homes.

I think this is more about starting a debate, getting people thinking about future energy usage in advance of COP26. And Johnson positioning himself as a 'global green leader' of course.

And, let's not forget, deflecting attention from the ongoing Insulate Britain 'situation'.

(On a side note -- most governments have form for either watering down or not implementing pledges in their election manifestos. Why would this one be any different?)

'You've got until 2035 before you need to worry too much about replacing a gas boiler with something else. I've just had a new gas boiler installed recently'

This! It isn't as if they will be illegal from next year or anything.. there is plenty of time.

Ours is quiet and efficient, rads get as hot as when we had a gas boiler and plenty of red hot water. Not quite sure why some people are against them. The cost will come down as more and more firms install them and there is some competition.

Size wise many people have hot water tanks in lofts already and the outdoor fans are similar size to air conditioning units.

It's the future, not the immediate future but it excellent that the government have a long term plan.

There were good deals for solar but the prices have come down so you don't get them any more. There needs to be legislation pushing builders to buy energy efficient homes and generous grants to help people move to green energy and plans for district heating and a decent alternative to a combi boiler.