Do I need to start saving so I can actually use a heat pump in my house?

[Wisteriac43]

I live in a detached Georgian house - we've done some decorating, the windows have secondary glazing, loft is insulated but the walls are solid. Am I the only one slightly horrified thinking we will all have to move to heatpumps? I think there is quite a bit we'd need to do so it would be even partially effective and I can see it costing atleast £50k to do all the insulation, double glazed windows, floor heating. We are trying to save for pensions and to help DC at uni, but are we instead going to have to put everything into having a house where a heat pump works?!

@Xfox

I've been looking at (150 year old +) houses - most of which have no gas. With a woodburner for back up they seem a reasonably sensible option. I'd not consider one if I get a house on mains gas though. Not yet. They will be cheaper and better (or there will be a new thing) by the time gas isn't an option.

Don’t rely on the woodburner back up. The momentum for banning them is growing

@PumpkinPie2016

I can understand people being worried about it as it's obviously very different to the norm people are used to.

To add a different perspective though, I live rurally and my home isn't connected to mains gas or water. We do have mains electricity!

We have solar panels and a ground source heat pump which was installed about 9 years ago. It's great, the heat pump + solar panels do the majority of our heating/hot water. Some days, our water can get to 70+ degrees so plenty hot enough. We do also have a wood burning aga which is connected to the heating/hot water system. We use that when it is really cold and the ground source doesn't give us enough. I don't know much about air source pumps so possibly a fire isn't necessary with those.

The only thing we use gas for is the gas hob so we just have a cylinder delivered every couple of years.

It's honestly fine 🙂 I actually like having some green energy sources. If you sat in my house, you wouldn't know that it was heated by heat pump.

Ground source heat pumps are fantastic, but not an option for very many people.

I'm planning for ground source with log burner back up too. We already have the log burner which gets used on very cold winter nights or if the power fails and cuts off the main heating (fairly regular here).

Oh by the way - not all Georgian homes are stately piles - mine is a former shoemaker's cottage! Not grand in the least.

We still have the original hot air central heating system which is a hole in the ceiling to allow the hot air from the cooking range downstairs to warm the upper bedroom. It's closed off now as we have a gas boiler but the way things are going I can see us pressing it back into service.

I don't know what to think about this. Our boiler is 35+ years old, and we have an immersion heater for hot water that we basically can't afford to use.

Having a combi put in would be prohibitively expensive for us as it couldn't go where the current boiler is - I've chatted about it with the guy who services our current boiler to get a ballpark figure and we just couldn't do it at the moment.

A heat pump, well I'm guessing there wouldn't be any point without replacing the double glazing first as a lot of them are blown, and if all the pipework needed replacing, downstairs the pipes are all under the floor so...

My Mum has ground source heating and a windmill but it's not an option for most people, she has a large garden in the country and a (very warm) modern insulated house.

We're in a town in a house with solid walls, we're currently considering solar panels or external wall insulation but need to find out if we need planning permission - we are in a conservation area. We're also considering an evil wood burning stove, not because we anticipate using it regularly but a carbon neutral heat source that is off grid is attractive. I don't think they will be banned anywhere near as soon as people on here think and come the zombie invasion I think I'll risk breaking the law to keep warm. We've got a reasonably new gas boiler and will think about an air source heat pump when that dies but think insulation or solar panels will make the biggest difference in the meantime.

I might be being a bit thick but what do people mean when they say house's with solid walls are cold? Our bungalow is all solid walls but I don't understand why covering them with plaster board would act as insulation? It's the external walls that let out the heat isn't it? Or do internal brick walls also let heat escape?

We are doing loads of work soon including trying to decide what to replace the 20 year old boiler with (because we are going into the loft so airing cupboard tank and loft tank will have to go) so the news this week feels like good timing.

Just interested in this "solid wall" side conversation as well.

I mean, interested as we are also doing full rewire so if plasterboarding the walls is good for insulation then it will be worth us doing it at the same time.

We live in a Tudor thatched cottage and have recently upgraded several things. Some double glazing (which costs a fortune as they are wooden) and replaced all radiators, which were about 30 years old, we now have the much bigger traditional looking rads. These two things cost over 20k but has made such a difference to the house, it is now so much warmer and we are using less LPG gas.

Not sure about replacing the gas boiler with a heat pump, as our walls are solid so can’t be insulated. We are thinking of putting solar panels on the garage roof, (which will of course look dreadful) I which will hopefully provide some cheaper energy in the future.

Yes the UK looking to endorce zero carbon emissions and expecting people to stump up the costs when we only produce 2% of the worlds emissions.

Meanwhile certain other countries produce 30% and aren't doing much to reduce to it infact itll probably increase.

The amount u will personally impact on the environment by spending all that money will be offset in less than an hour by another country.

But let's continue to hammer people in the UK,.adding financial pressure unnecessarily. Its a joke thats what it is.

I wouldn’t be overly concerned right now. The technology isn’t there and they know it. There needs to be lots of research and development to find suitable options for a variety of situations and budgets and by 2035 there may well be but it will be like the electric cars where the first generation ones were not great and then they get better. Keep it on the back burner save if you can but I wouldn’t be quick to act until there is something sustainable on the market. Insulating your home to reduce reliance is a good idea though so if you can look into that it would be good.

@KitchenKrisis

I can't believe it either op it's horrific.

We've only just been able to afford a new boiler after the 20 years old glow worm failed.

It's not 'horrific' because it's not true. Stop panicking and read what the policy actually is instead of overheated (sorry) claims as to what it is.

I'm renovating our 1830s end terrace.The architect said that in his view it's just not possible to insulate old houses to the standard needed if a heat pump will be the sole heating without spending an absolute fortune on insulation. I can't even find an insulation specialist to quote as they only want to work with big landlords.

@gogohm

Scaremongering here. Heat pumps are widely used across Scandinavia which is far colder.

Solid walled houses are cold anyway, we internally insulated ours using plasterboard with insulation, made a huge difference and costs about £400 a room

You can’t compare British houses to Scandinavian houses, completely different beast and they rely heavily on woodburners which are demonised on here.

@catnamedEaster Solid external walls as opposed to brick/block cavity walls with a gap in the middle. Some older houses built of stone have walls that are thick but only one layer

A way to improve the thermo-efficiency of some houses is to line the external walls of each room with an inner 'false wall' of plasterboard and fill the gap between with insulating felt.

It reduces the size of rooms by a couple of inches but can reduce heat loss significantly.

you won't be able to buy a new gas boiler in fifteen years but no one is making you take out the one you have, replace it in twelve years time with another gas boiler. Heat source pumps are not the answer are have too many old houses that are impossible to insulate to the required standard. We put super thick insulation in the loft and now get condensation upstairs if we dint open the windows every day in winter.... Our house is 100 years old they weren't built with double glazing, insulation and under floor heating in mind. For the record our under floor heating costs a lot more than the gas central heating does.

@Bootikin but I am under 40, (29) and own a 1930s flat. Most of the housing in my area (flats or houses) were built in the 19th or early 20th century!

I was told I couldn't have an air-source heat pump (for house heat, not for hot water) in my old granite cottage towards the northerly end of this island, because I didn't want to pay ££ to make my tiny rooms even tinier with internal insulation first. Then, on the recommendation of a Scandinavian colleague, I approached a Scandinavian installer, who told me that this was nonsense. Less than £3k for the complete installation later, I have a warm cottage, and saved about £500 on electricity over the last year. Yes, the interior doors have to be open for the air to circulate, but I leave them open for the cat anyway! If there were to be a power outage, I have a multifuel stove for backup (am rural, no access to gas anyway).

What about electric radiators (of the new energy-efficient kind)? We bought an old house last year with no gas supply and decided to opt for these as gas central heating would've been more expensive to install and we knew it was on the way out. I have to say, we are really happy with how warm our house is now and aren't paying much more for electricity either. I rarely hear them mentioned though?

I have a heat pump (not UK). I’m thinking it’s a different thing though. Mine heats in winter and cools in summer (it doesn’t do anything g with heating water though. ). I find it very efficient.

Our gas boiler is now pretty elderly so we are looking at air pumps. We have a modern house, but have limited space for the pipes to go in as the back of the house is mainly sheet glass. Does anyone know how much wall space you need to feed pipes in?

My parents live in a 16c thatched cottage with no cavity walls, no gas, no radiators. They rely solely on woodburners in the living room and dining room for heat and an electric water heater.
I assume when they pass on and this house sells (hopefully many years into the future, they’re only in their 70s now), the only people who can buy it will be those buying without a mortgage as there’s no way that we could do half the eco things necessary. It’s listed as well so I don’t even think we’d be allowed to - we’re not allowed to even add double glazing.

We’re in Denmark and have recently moved into a house with an air-to-air heat pump (blows warm air into the house rather than the air-to-water which heats water for radiators or underfloor heating). We also have electric heaters but some are a bit old so we plan to replace those with more energy efficient ones.

Heat pumps are becoming more and more popular though (and are very popular in Sweden. Not sure about Norway).

Noise-wise - ours is hardly noticeable (maybe similar to a quiet fan?) I think much older models can be very noisy though, so it depends on the age of the pump. Ours is around 6 years old I think.

The government here announced a couple of years ago that they plan to have eradicated all gas and oil by 2030, so there’s a big push here too and you can apply for a grant to help with costs (covers about half the cost I think?) Although a lot of people where I live use natural gas and there’s no district heating yet (they have plans to roll it out though). I’m unsure about wood burners, whether they want those gone too or just switched to more eco friendly versions. If you buy a house these days with an old wood burner, you are legally obliged to either remove it or update it to a more environmentally friendly one.

That’s really interesting @EdwinsActsOfKindness - what are the new, more environmentally friendly wood burners like? How do they differ from the old ones? That might be an option for my parents house eventually.

I haven't done much research on them yet but watching the news they just look massive. Many people in the UK have to live in homes that are already too small for their needs. How are people in small homes supposed to squeeze these units in? Not to mention the outside unit taking up valuable outdoor space in postage stamp size gardens, especially when they already have 4 different bins to store.