SIL spending all MILs savings, MIL making excuses due to SIL health

[A2011]

Hi, 1st time posting so hope I can put issue across clearly. Found out due to MIL hinting that she was skint that SIL (her daughter) has been 'borrowing' lots of money. Each month MILs outgoings is higher than her income but as the income includes the savings we has to intervene as savings (over 2k) are now gone. I say we, I as DIL did most of the talking as hubby doesn't like confrontation. Highlighted to both of them that MIL can no longer afford to lend £. SIL is on benefits as she has MS so said we would help SIL if she was struggling. SIL says she's on the breadline, they have no money and show us she has £3.80 in her account. MIL says they help each other out, SIL does pay for MILs shopping sometimes & has paid back a bit but it is a small fraction of what has gone. SIL shares her statements & these tell a different story. She is only struggling to fund a severe spending habit. 4 different TV subscriptions, £26 pm on lottery, £25 dog treat subscription, takeaways. Food shopping in Sainsburys not Aldi & certainly not the food bank! I should add that she has a fiance who contributes over half his wages, she has more than enough to cover all normal outgoings & some left over. MIL only made excuses, saying she herself needs to cut back, she is spending next to nothing herself, she likes to pay for her daughters & grand daughters weekly horse riding (I know!) and has enough herself (pensions & benefits) to do that but can continue to the extent it has been. I think she overcompensates because SIL has health issues, DH is going to take over online banking and change password, MIL says "oh but SIL will get upset". We helped SIL save some £ by cancelling some unnecessary bills but there is still work to do. Until SIL can face the real issue (overspending possibly addiction) it isn't going to be resolved fully. MIL has told us to back off for a bit, as SIL is getting headaches. We are waiting for the bank password. I think she'll get worse when we lock her out. I don't think fiance knows everything, he gets a lot of blame from SIL and MIL, he doesn't do a lot around home, he works 12 hour shifts and as said he contributes. MiL never mentions the positives about him, always negative whereas SIL can do no wrong. Have told DH he needs to be firm, not "sorry we upset". I struggle as I always try to be reasonable and with her health it is a worry but there's a part of me that feels she is manipulative & not used to hearing no. I've said I will help DH with laying out all the figures for info and he needs to step up. Don't think either SIL or MIL 'get it' yet. Sorry for long post, think it therapeutic to get it all out, trying not to feel conflicted, like I'm being firm but fair without feeling like a b!tch!

Honestly, I only managed to get halfway through your OP and your update because the level of nose-poking into another adult's business, is ridiculous.

Your MIL's entitled to spend her money how she pleases. If you don't like her moaning about being skint, change the subject or just repeat "Well stop lending money then".

It's really none of your business.

@toomuchlaundry

Does your DH have POA?

We hadn't considered it as MIL is compos mentis, I had it for my Mum (with my brother) but she had dementia.

@MichelleScarn

Do they both MIL and sil have capacity? If so this is how they are choosing to live their lives unfortunately, why should your dh become the mean parent withholding all the 'fun stuff' from them? And you are contributing to this chaos from your income? Not a chance from my perspective!

Unfortunately MIL isn't really choosing with regards to the money coming out of her account, although you could argue I guess she is choosing not to do anything about it, through fear of upsetting SIL

@SeasonFinale

Inbound be more concerned that DH decided he needed to top up his mother's account.

Personally let them get on with it. If the savings are gone they are gone and if there isn't the income MIL won't be able to sub SIL.

Oh no I've said and DH agrees, we won't be giving a penny. We've always perviously said we would help out if SIL was struggling (not knowing she gets more in benefits than I get on a fulltime manager's salary) but as it's not a case of Poverty but an overspending habit we know it isn't going to help by giving handouts. One day MIL will be gone and SIL will still have the habit

DH shouldn't take over online banking but helping his mum change the password to something of her own choosing and not letting SIL know what it is might be a good idea.

If SIL is helping herself to funds can DH help mum explain this to the bank? I think as she's given her the password there isn't much to be done but they might be able to block transactions to her account?

@WorraLiberty

Honestly, I only managed to get halfway through your OP and your update because the level of nose-poking into another adult's business, is ridiculous.

Your MIL's entitled to spend her money how she pleases. If you don't like her moaning about being skint, change the subject or just repeat "Well stop lending money then".

It's really none of your business.

Except that the MIL is asking for help. So its not interfering when they've been asked to help

@FKATondelayo

DH is going to take over online banking and change password, MIL says "oh but SIL will get upset"... MIL has told us to back off for a bit, as SIL is getting headaches. We are waiting for the bank password. I think she'll get worse when we lock her out.

What you're doing is very likely illegal and I hope MIL and SIL are able to escape yours and your husband's control.

Its clear I really didn't explain it too well. MIL agrees to DH monitoring her online banking, she never chose to set it up, she doesn't even have a smart phone, just a basic mobile and other than using her debit card does all her banking through the post office. If SIL no longer has access, we're hoping DH won't even need to monitor it. We feel that if MIL is lending physical cash then she'll feel more in control of her own finances.

I’m going to go against the grain here and say that I think your DH or you need to stay close to this.

I work with clients who have poor financial literacy and others who have been taken advantage of.

Ultimately, if your MIL was not aware of every transaction, there is an element of fraud.

I would suggest that to safeguard her in the future, a POA is put in place now, so if she does loose capacity, it does not become a bun fight between your DH and SIL. If she can’t be trusted now, there could be a worry in the future.

@sillysmiles

I'm guessing your concern is that long term your MIL is going to end up with nothing and then it will fall on you and your DH to support her while your SIL has pissed it against a wall.

I think, so long as your DH keeps talking to his mum about what he is doing, then fine, work away. Your MIL obviously is looking for someone to help her or she wouldn't have been dropping hints.
All you can do is support your husband and let him deal with his family, because I suspect this will get worse before it gets better!

Hi @sillysmiles absolutely, that is exactly it. Oh I can see it definitely getting worse first. We were shocked by it and at SILs attitude, we did not think of her in this way I do think if she has got herself in a mess and if she can face it then it could get better but lots of heads in the sand at the moment. Have told DH its his responsibility, I'll support him but am no longer listening to his 'but you're better with words than me" Thanks

She gets more in benefits than I get on a full time manager's salary

There's no way that is true.

@Poolhater

I’m going to go against the grain here and say that I think your DH or you need to stay close to this.

I work with clients who have poor financial literacy and others who have been taken advantage of.

Ultimately, if your MIL was not aware of every transaction, there is an element of fraud.

I would suggest that to safeguard her in the future, a POA is put in place now, so if she does loose capacity, it does not become a bun fight between your DH and SIL. If she can’t be trusted now, there could be a worry in the future.

@Poolhater thanks, that's truly where we are coming from. There is no other family for DH so we don't want any falling out, I appreciate that (especially to posters who disagree) that I've probably come across as angry and interfering. And I have felt angry but ultimately concerned for MIL. I don't think we'd get anywhere with fraud, MIL would just make excuses and we couldn't report her, before all this things were good. we're hoping SIL will see it eventually and come out the other side. POA feels difficult when MIL isn't incapacitated but I've certainly thought of it. I think perhaps when the heat has died down we approach it.

@Ughmaybenot

Also! Your DH has done you a real disservice in pushing you to do all the talking. Blood is, nearly always, thicker than water, and now you’ll be blamed for meddling and getting over-involved because your husband was too bloody spineless to use his words to his own family! I’m presuming when you say about changing the online banking log in details, you mean it’ll be then ‘blocked’ from SIL not MIL? You’re on ridiculously dodgy ground there else.

Yes, while I accept he's not a talker, I've now told him to start learning! Spot on with the online banking, SIL has the app on her phone and logs in with just her finger print, it's all too easy and tempting. There are days where they were multiple transfers. MIL doesn't use it but we found out she was asking SIL to check it every day, we think through worry and maybe to try and dissuade SIL perhaps without actually confronting her.

Spending addiction is very real but barely recognised yet in this country - which is in no way a defence for the sil theft

You absolutely need to protect mil not saying you don't, but legally you're on dodgy ground taking over her bank account if she has capacity you can't just decide that for her! But sil also needs to be shut out of the account she's treating it like her own money

But sil also needs support to deal with the spending. If at all possible she needs to see a therapist that specialises in addiction.

I'm nc with my sister who has always been bailed out by parents cos she refuses to cut her cloth! Branded groceries, high end and designer clothes for her and dc etc she's either on benefits or in low paid employment (she can't hold down a job)

But I also have a relative who genuinely suffered from a spending addiction which was as a grief response initially. Thankfully they had a good gp and were referred for therapy to an addiction therapist and are now in recovery with "backup plans" if they feel themselves erring that way again - they never stole from anyone though! They racked up some worrying levels of debt and caused themselves a lot of distress.

she didn't seem aware of all that SIL was taking

That's the theft! I'd be livid at that

I think it's financial abuse also

If SIL is helping herself to funds can DH help mum explain this to the bank?

That may cause a lot of trouble - from mil breaching t&c's of agreement with bank to possible fraud dept and police involvement

I've now told him to start learning!

Absolutely! Not fair of him to cast you as "bad cop" when it's his family!

He needs to step up here and stop putting you in the firing line!

His sister has stolen from his mother, he needs to wrap his head around that FACT and stop leaving you to deal with it all.

Does mil know the level of sil income? It sounds like it exceeds hers.

Sil should be perhaps helping HER out!

I agree that your sil's access to her mum's online bank account should be stopped.

However you say mil's small amount of savings are now gone (2k) Over how long a period? Whatever action you take, the savings are gone.

Mil has pensions and benefits you say, so if she wishes to help her daughter out with cash here and there going forward, that really isn't your business.
It sounds as though her daughter is close, probably provides a lot of company, support, does her shopping and so on. As she ages, she will rely on her daughter more and more. Don't cause a huge rift in this family if your mil will suffer the consequences.

She is paying for a phone she doesn't have! I assume this is a phone contract. Sil is correct to keep paying the instalments until the contract is up, regardless of whether the phone has been lost or broken.

Mil pays for her (other ) daughter and granddaughter's riding lessons why aren't you questioning this and telling her it's "unnecessary"? All this fuss about spending £300 a year on dog treats when horse riding lessons will be running into thousands.

She's getting more in benefits than I earn as a full time manager Don't be ridiculous. Ask any disabled person in this country struggling on benefits if they're pulling in more than a full time working salary and they'll laugh bitterly in your face.

a severe shopping addiction I wouldn't class having tv subscriptions, buying dog treats and shopping in Sainsburys as a severe shopping addiction. It was wrong for your sil to take small increments of money without permission but you're being unnecessarily dramatic to say she has a shopping addiction.

She's not shopping in Aldi or the food bank! a daft comment. No one shops in the food bank. Where I live, only 4 food bank referrals are allowed per family a year. It's not an alternative method of food shopping.

Sil should not have taken money without permission. You're right to bring this up.

It might be better to refer your sil to a company such as StepChange for help with managing her outgoings. I think the advice you're attempting to give her is misinformed and judgemental and will only cause relationship breakdowns in the family.

@PersonaNonGarter

You need to step back OP.

You are right but this absolutely is not your fight.

This 100% I’m sorry, but not your circus, nor monkeys.

The OP is detailing her SIL’s financial abuse of her MIL and the replies on here are ridiculous. OP I’m so sorry. MNHQ do we have resources we share?

I dont think there's much you can do @A2011