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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think classics are bloody hard to read?

352 replies

Blackbootswithredribbons · 18/10/2021 19:43

Now, don't get me wrong, I've read some amazing classics in my time (Lord Of The Flies, Jane Eyre etc) but it definitely hurts my brain sometimes! Amazing stories but the long, pointless descriptions, written in that old fashioned way that makes you feel a little stupid sometimes Blush.

So, AIBU?

OP posts:
AmericanBookworm · 21/10/2021 15:22

I didn't say all but most; I like modern nonfiction and occasionally have discovered a modern fiction book that I enjoy but as a general rule I prefer classics.

AmericanBookworm · 21/10/2021 15:23

Sorry, meant to respond to Clandestin.

Clandestin · 21/10/2021 16:02

@WhiskyXray

Re: Lucy's family disaster, I can't make it out. I guessed the first time that perhaps her mother had died and her father had been committed to trial for her murder, and eventually hanged. But the time-frame doesn't fit; justice didn't hang about in those days you were tried, convicted and had a noose around your neck before rigid mortis had set in on your victim! So I think Lucy's parents must have been notorious in some way, perhaps engaged openly in vice sexual or perhaps drug-related-- and their final public condemnation / arrest must have been the cataclysm.

Oddly enough, I was reading through some family documents and found a potted memoir penned by a female relative towards the end of her life c.1880. After a terse list of dates and major events, she wrote something like, "There were of course many private tragedies in these years, but it is not supposed that they would be of interest to the reader." And I found that delightful. But Lucy was far worse, of course- not merely primly omitting the facts, but goading the reader, sneering that they are too feeble-minded to cope with reality, so let them imagine any pretty fantasy they like. She is a cowbag and God I love her.Grin

I have just put Bleak House on my e-reader. Thanks.Smile

Oh, you're much more LURID than my Villette imaginings, which never got beyond dead parents and reversals of fortune wiping out all the family money, and epidemics wiping out whatever family was left!

You've made me go and look it up now.

All Lucy actually says about it is:

I was staying at Bretton; my godmother having come in person to claim me of the kinsfolk with whom was at that time fixed my permanent residence. I believe she then plainly saw events coming, whose very shadow I scarce guessed; yet of which the faint suspicion sufficed to impart unsettled sadness, and made me glad to change scene and society.

which sounds like perhaps her parents are already dead (kinsfolk sounds more distant than immediate family?) but Mrs B sees something ahead -- terminal illness, bankruptcy, both?

Then she's apprehensive when Mrs Bretton gets a letter:

I thought at first it was from home, and trembled, expecting I know not what disastrous communication: to me, however, no reference was made, and the cloud seemed to pass.

And then when she leaves Bretton:

betook myself home, having been absent six months. It will be conjectured that I was of course glad to return to the bosom of my kindred. Well! the amiable conjecture does no harm, and may therefore be safely left uncontradicted. Far from saying nay, indeed, I will permit the reader to picture me, for the next eight years, as a bark slumbering through halcyon weather, in a harbour still as glass—the steersman stretched on the little deck, his face up to heaven, his eyes closed: buried, if you will, in a long prayer. A great many women and girls are supposed to pass their lives something in that fashion; why not I with the rest?

Picture me then idle, basking, plump, and happy, stretched on a cushioned deck, warmed with constant sunshine, rocked by breezes indolently soft. However, it cannot be concealed that, in that case, I must somehow have fallen overboard, or that there must have been wreck at last. I too well remember a time—a long time—of cold, of danger, of contention. To this hour, when I have the nightmare, it repeats the rush and saltness of briny waves in my throat, and their icy pressure on my lungs. I even know there was a storm, and that not of one hour nor one day. For many days and nights neither sun nor stars appeared; we cast with our own hands the tackling out of the ship; a heavy tempest lay on us; all hope that we should be saved was taken away. In fine, the ship was lost, the crew perished.

She sounds as though she's not fond of these 'kindred' when she reuturns home, but the metaphor makes it sound like a collective disaster, and something related to it cuts off contact with her godmother...?

I do wish one could ask CB -- I'm much more interested in Lucy's pre-Miss Marchmont life than I am in whether Monsieur Paul survives his shipwreck or not (as I don't have any kind of 'sunny imagination'. But she wouldn't say, probably. She always strikes me as probably deeply narky in company.

Lucy is indeed a cowbag of the best possible variety. Grin

Maireas · 21/10/2021 16:13

@daisypond

Bleak House is my favourite Dickens - I’ve read it a few times - though it’s not as perfect a novel as Great Expectations.
I agree completely. Bleak House is my favourite book of all time. Great Expectations is a more effective novel, arguably, and very enjoyable.
Blackpoolhotelier · 22/10/2021 07:52

@lnsufficientFuns

I simply do not understand the endless fawning fuss about Catcher In The Rye

That is all.

I read this recently. A friend has a huge poster of this in her lounge and another named her son Holden after it. I thought it was going to be about someone profound. It's just about a very depressed and emotionally neglected boy who I felt desperately sorry for. I tried to imagine how I'd feel reading as a teenager but can't get past my reaction reading it as a mother. I sort of want to tell my friends to read it again now they are mothers just to see if their reaction changes. I know holden is revered as some kind of hero and I just dont get it
Clandestin · 22/10/2021 09:33

But I don’t think anyone is claiming Holden is ‘profound’. Yes, it’s about a neglected, messed-up teenager having a breakdown — it’s being narrated from a psychiatric hospital!, after all — but the people who like it think it’s a very good novel about a messed-up teenager having a breakdown.

I don’t think I’ve read it since my teens, when I wasn’t wild about it, but maybe I should give it another go — Salinger did intend it for adults.

lnsufficientFuns · 22/10/2021 14:26

@Blackpoolhotelier

Good point... I have not read it since I was in my early twenties. Pre kids and ore my own nervous breakdown 😂

Blackpoolhotelier · 22/10/2021 15:04

@clandestine

Yes I see that now I've read it.
My friends did it for A level. It was my incorrect assumption that he was going to be this super cool and profound dude. I've seen it referenced in do many other things, one that sticks in mind is that film Jennifer Aniston did straight after friends. A character in that was obsessed with Holden. For years now I've thought i really must read this book everyone loves so much. So I did. It's a good book, well written, but I cannot fathom why people and fictional characters want to be like him. It was my idea of what the book was that was wrong

Kanaloa · 22/10/2021 17:59

[quote Blackpoolhotelier]@clandestine

Yes I see that now I've read it.
My friends did it for A level. It was my incorrect assumption that he was going to be this super cool and profound dude. I've seen it referenced in do many other things, one that sticks in mind is that film Jennifer Aniston did straight after friends. A character in that was obsessed with Holden. For years now I've thought i really must read this book everyone loves so much. So I did. It's a good book, well written, but I cannot fathom why people and fictional characters want to be like him. It was my idea of what the book was that was wrong [/quote]
I think there’s many books with protagonists that people inexplicably idolise though (things like Fight Club) where they have pretty obviously missed the actual point of the novel. They haven’t separated the good writing and art from the character who isn’t a role model but more of just a stark representation.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 22/10/2021 18:24

Brilliant Dickens novel recommendations - Bleak House, Little Dorrit, David Copperfield, Great Expectations, Our Mutual Friend. It's a long time since I last read A Tale of Two Cities. I really should give it another go. I've never made it past the first chapter or two of Martin Chuzzlewit and never even started Barnaby Rudge. Maybe those should be a project for the winter.

There was an excellent BBC adaption of Our Mutual Friend with Anna Friel, ages ago now. Also a really stunning two part film adaptation of Little Dorrit with Derek Jacobi.

Brefugee · 25/10/2021 08:08

So, what is a good Dickens for a Dickens-denier to try?

nobody else feel the love for Oliver Twist? The descriptions of Mr Bumble alone (cough remindsmeofBorisJohnson cough) are worth it.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 25/10/2021 08:35

@DottyHarmer

The heroine being oh so cool with homosexuality - yep, that would happen - not. And yes, her wandering all over Rotterdam or wherever unaccompanied and knowing where she was going when she’d never been out before - yep. Bilge.

I can’t bear modern sensibilities bolted onto the past. That is one reason why I don’t care for historical fiction. Of course, for example, there were gay people in Victorian times, but no one was out and proud! I think you can be very, very sure that most people would not even have known what it was.

My df had no idea that his own db was gay and that was in the 1940s. It wasn’t until at least the decriminalisation in the 60s that it was on people’s radar, and even until recently people would cover it up. (And some in public eye still do.) So the notion of Ru Paul’s drag race in 1850 is preposterous.

My DM (born 1918) once told me that she’d had no idea that homosexuality existed, until she was in her early 20s and a colleague in her London office told her. And included what the practice entailed!

DM didn’t believe it! She was newly married but DF was away with the navy - it was WW2. She had to wait until he was home on leave to ask him, and of course he put her straight.

DottyHarmer · 25/10/2021 09:29

My mil told me (after a large quantity of red wine) that she had the shock of her life on her wedding night (1948). She couldn’t believe it! Probably explains why fil slept in the conservatory Grin

LizzieW1969 · 25/10/2021 11:35

@Brefugee

Yes I like ‘Oliver Twist’, as in I’ve enjoyed watching the films, but I’ve never read the book so I can’t comment on that. I agree with you about the character of Mr Bumble, though.

Similarly with ‘Christmas Carol’.

I did read ‘Great Expectations’ at school and like it, though I struggled with how longwinded it was.

Re the Bronte sisters, I like ‘Wuthering Heights’, though I didn’t like it at all when I read it at school. I’ve never read ‘Jane Eyre’, I’ve only seen film adaptations of it.

I think I might have a read of some of these novels. Especially as it’s likely that my DDs will be reading them at school eventually!

DottyHarmer · 25/10/2021 11:39

Oh, do read Jane Eyre. I have never seen a decent adaptation of the book.

Otoh I don’t really like Wuthering Heights. Perhaps it’s because I’ve never really cared for “bad boys”. I’m a bit too proud ! (Although quite keen on Alan Rickman as Sheriff of Nottingham…….)

Capferret · 25/10/2021 11:43

@LizzieW1969 Oliver Twist is much more gritty than the film.
Fagin is caught and is sentenced to be hung.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 25/10/2021 11:43

I have seen it claimed (don't know if it's true) that the reason sex between two consenting males was a crime but there was no law against the female equivalent was because when someone (the PM of the day?) tried to explain to Queen Victoria about lesbianism she was so appalled and incredulous that the whole idea was abandoned.

Not sure about this, given that I gather she was very clear in her diaries how much she and Albert enjoyed sex Grin, and she did after all grow up in a time when her uncles George IV and William IV were bywords for licentious behaviour.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 25/10/2021 11:46

Just had a thought - can't recommend strongly enough that anybody who reads Jane Eyre should go on and read Wide Sargasso Sea by Jean Rhys, which is told from the point of view of the first Mrs Rochester. Totally different style from JE. Jean Rhys had a very dark and difficult life. The first part of it was on Dominica and that is a very strong influence on WSS.

LizzieW1969 · 25/10/2021 11:50

@Capferret

Yes, I have been told that Fagin is hanged in the book. It’s a more fitting ending, I think, seeing as Bill Sikes is killed. It makes sense for Fagin to have his comeuppance as well.

The ending in the musical is somewhat weak IMO.

LizzieW1969 · 25/10/2021 11:52

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

I’ve read that about Queen Victoria as well. I also find it hard to believe.

Caffeinefirst · 25/10/2021 12:08

I’ve always been a big reader since childhood but never really got on with Dickens. Since cancer treatment I have the attention span of a gnat and I would go so far as to say Audible has been life changing for me. Listened to Little Dorrit on my walks and enjoyed it. Don’t think I would have got through reading it. I also listened to an Anthony Trollope which I know I wouldn’t have read.

I always resisted audio books as I thought I wouldn’t get taken into the different world in the way you do reading a book but I find it so relaxing just letting the words wash over me. I also listen whilst doing housework, pottering round the house.

WhiskyXray · 25/10/2021 12:29

I have read Oliver Twist! It was one of those where I found it impossible to set aside the anti-semitism (though I usually can grin and bear it to some extent with older texts). Might give it another go now I'm older and more circumspect.

Mr B was a brilliant character, though!

TomPinch · 25/10/2021 13:02

So, what is a good Dickens for a Dickens-denier to try?

I love Dickens (as my name might indicate) and I've read all his novels except The Mystery of Edwin Drood which I won't ever start because I know I won't be able to bear it being unfinished.

But Dickens is Dickens - all his novels are fundamentally the same. They're all quite long, meander quite a bit, have soap-opera like subplots, the writing style is very wordy, the characters are caricatures, his female characters are all subservient or problematic.

So while I would say Martin Chuzzelwit or Nicholas Nickleby are 'more Dickens' and Great Expectations much less, I think if you're not really into Dickens it's not worth trying any of his books.

I would actually suggest Vanity Fair by Thackeray instead if you really want a Dickens-style read. Hilarious, and the plot keeps moving. A shame he only had one book in him.

TomPinch · 25/10/2021 13:08

[quote Capferret]@LizzieW1969 Oliver Twist is much more gritty than the film.
Fagin is caught and is sentenced to be hung.[/quote]
There is also Nancy, who is coercively controlled by Sikes, and can't find it in her to leave him even when Rose offers all the help she'd need and then some. Sikes later murders Nancy. Dickens' attitude to women is problematic to say the least but he got that.

Lemonyfuckit · 25/10/2021 13:21

I generally like classics but have never been particularly in to Dickens, and I did an English literature degree. Brontës and Jane Austen though yes please. I started War and Peace - I was definitely enjoying it whilst reading it and got quite into it but you have to have dedicated chunks of time, not something to dip into on the commute. I would have to start all over again as you practically need a spreadsheet to remember all the characters....