Sexism in sailing club?

[NotJustACigar]

Hi, I'm trying to decide whether to join a sailing club where one instructor seems to be a bit of a misogynist. I did an introductory dinghy sailing course there a few weeks ago and one of the instructors was an ex firefighter. Out of nowhere he kept making all these comments about how women should never have been allowed into the fire service. There were 2 other women on the course - one said nothing, one said she would want a man to save her if she was in a fire and I said that some women were stronger than some men and if a woman was physically strong enough there was no reason she shouldn't be a firefighter!

Up to that point my sailing lesson had been going well but I was nervous. Next time we went out that instructor kept shouting at me that I was doing things wrong and that I needed to calm down. Now it's true I was making mistakes but I was just learning and I do have a nervous disposition...but it seems a bit of a coincidence that it should all turn badly immediately after that conversation!

Now I need to figure out whether to jon that sailing club which I think I want to do because it's the only one in my area and they let you borrow their dinghies free if you're a member. There are loads of other members some of whom I met on the course and all of whom were nice except that one instructor. However it's quite male dominated, the misogynist is good friends with the club leader, and I'd be joining on my own as my husband has no interest in sailing.

So: YANBU to join = go ahead and join and don't let one jerk ruin sailing for you. In this case what attitude do I take when I walk in there alone and feeling vulnerable as new and I encounter him?

YABU = don't be part of a club that values him as a member and figure out some other way to sail

Difficult decision OP.

If you continue, you may end up loathing the sport, or worse, you may be put in danger and develop a phobia. Be careful.

On the other hand it's a shame as it's the only option available where you are.

Probably I would stop going and wait until I find somewhere more suitable

Thank you for saying it's a difficult one @mustlovegin - I almost (but not quite) wish I hadn't said anything!

I would join and treat him the same as every other person.

If he makes inappropriate comments to you/in conversation where you're involved then challenge him as you would with anyone in any walk of life.

Personally I'd join. One opinion from one instructor, and one session where you made mistakes isn't enough to write off an entire hobby!

I think the two issues are separate - he expressed strong opinions about something he had personal experience with, which you and others disagreed with but whilst you may not agree with his opinion, others hold similar beliefs hence there was agreement with him.

The issue with him telling you to calm down, when you were making mistakes and admitting you have a nervous disposition is a different one. Perhaps when you're nervous being told to be calm isn't personally effective for you, but if he's seeing someone obviously nervous and making mistakes then it would be natural to say that.

I think linking the two issues is perhaps a stretch, do you genuinely believe you wouldn't have made mistakes had he not expressed his opinion which you disagree with? I don't think "it seems a bit of a coincidence" I think it is a total coincidence!

Check if there are any other instructors apart from that one. If there are, I’d join. I’m sure there are some nice people there too. I grew up in a patriarchal culture, so I’m used to having to prove myself. I don’t mind being underestimated - I just try and build my skill and demonstrate. I get that some people might find this annoying though. It’s your leisure time, so do what makes you feel comfortable.

If you switch women to a racial group how acceptable would his comments be? His feet wouldn’t touch the floor.

@MsTSwift

If you switch women to a racial group how acceptable would his comments be? His feet wouldn’t touch the floor.

I thought that too @MsTSwift!

It could be a coincidence though I was doing well before and his "calm down" was a rant, not supportive.

Are there other instructors? And how much do members see of the instructors after they join? (apologies, know nothing of sailing). If you don't see him after the initial course and the other members are nice I'd go for it. If you have to take him out in the boat every time you want a quiet trip I'd avoid like the plague.

Presumably the person in question mentioned they were ex-fire service and that's how the subject came up, not gratuitously. I wouldn't take that as slam dunk for ingrained misogyny, because it's a hugely physical job and most women would not qualify, and even those who do are likely to be less physically strong than their male counterparts (and there are circumstances where strength can really matter).

It sounds as if your problem in the second half was your nervousness. Now if that is impacting your ability to do a role, you need to learn skills to overcome it in the moments it is happening.

Until you can do that, then I think you are better off at a different club. Don't stay where you don't feel right if there is any form of viable alternative

If you have to take him out in the boat every time you want a quiet trip I'd avoid like the plague

That's what I was thinking. I know someone who developed a phobia of water after taking swimming lessons with a very aggressive and bullyish instructor.

i love sailing so much. If that dude was standing between me and having nonstop access to boats, I would put up with it. As soon as you pass all your requirements, you will not have to talk to him again.

Tough choice. A lot of sports and hobbies are male dominated, and sadly misoygny gets tolerated in a lot of places "oh don't mind Dave he's a bit of a character" "sexism? I've never seen any"(said by men).

Do you have to decide to join or not-join now? Can you pay per session for a bit, just to see if it's going to be bearable enough to join for a year? It's encouraging that there are lots of members. Maybe you could get friendly with the likes of the woman who didn't say anything...perhaps she was secretly thinking WHAT A DICK. You can take a dinghy out together and bond over what an arse he is.

I suppose he's going to be an asshole when you're getting launched unless you are F1 pitcrew fast, because Other People Are Waiting And This Woman Is Getting In The Way or if you ever hash up coming round a marker buoy and glance off another boat you know he'll get the fecking loudhailer out and try to make sure everyone knows. Still, it sounds like there might be enough nice women and men to dilute the dickhead.

If it was any other sport where there was no potential 'danger' involved I would do as powershower says - ignore the instructor and hang out with people/women who are nice

It could be a coincidence though I was doing well before and his "calm down" was a rant, not supportive.

Was what you were doing dangerous? Because if it was small mistakes I'd expect support. If they were putting you at serious risk I'd expect a more stern reaction. He's responsible for your safety.

Is the club interested in recruiting new members? Are they actively trying to do so e.g. running taster days, advertising etc. Maybe your course was part of this?

If so they will be interested to know what impression they are giving. Putting effort into recruiting, then putting interested people off - in ways that might cause those people to talk to others and the club to develop a bad reputation locally - is very counterproductive. It may well be that the intention of the committee is not matched by the practice of some members.

There may well be female committee members quietly (or less quietly) cheering your feedback.

If they are a fully committed bunch of sexist dinosaurs and feed that back to you, then you know.

So I would send a brief, clear but polite note, setting out exactly what you've said here. Say that you found his attitude and change of behaviour towards you off-putting and are now in two minds about joining.

They don't have to agree with you, deep down. They will almost certainly recognise a lost membership fee and that they need to adjust their behaviour in public.

I’d join, but I’d also wait until the next fundraising push (there’s always one at sailing clubs). I’d say, in a jovial tone, to the Club Committee members something ‘helpful’ like ‘Ooo best keep Tony off the microphone, if he slips up and says the kind of things he said on my course he’ll get everyone in trouble.’ Make him squirm, treat him like the dangerous (to the Club) dinosaur that he is. Then stand for a Committee post and really hand him his arse in a couple of years.

I'd be more concerned that he shouted at you. That's totally counter-productive for a sailing instructor. Are there other instructors at the club?

Are there other clubs? Other instructors?

OP, what do you do in other areas of life where this happens, and leaving isn’t an option? Say a male colleague or manager bullies you at work?
Because whatever you normally do there, is what you should do with this instructor.
Personally, I’d make firm eye contact and say something cold and calm, like “Don’t shout at me, I don’t appreciate it. And I will report any further bad behaviour to the club.”
Or “I am paying for your time, not your rudeness.”
Or… fill in choice of your own.
Don’t let one shitty little misogynist with issues put you off sailing!

Such a shame, our local club is very woman friendly and actively recruits women. I know some instructors, many of them are women, and they are all incredibly supportive of everyone.

Hopefully you can find another instructor?

I would suggest trying out some other clubs/instructors first.

I would still join, one bad apple wouldn't spoil it for me but I'm an arsehole and would dig my heels in.
I also wouldn't allow anyone to shout at me unless I were putting myself or others in danger, I'd definitely react to that "no need to shout, I'm not fucking deaf"
If it continued I'd address it with the instructor privately.
You should join the sailing club, once you're more able you won't require the instructor and can minimise your interaction

Please be brave and report this to the club's managing committee, both the sexism and the shouting.
It is unfortunate that sailing is still so male-dominated but this is unacceptable.

I'd join, if its the most convenient for you. I haven't had anything to do with my instructors since joining.

Join. But avoid him. You know what he is on this issue so just give him a wide berth. I doubt he sees you as a kindred spirit either.

I have a very sexist colleague. I keep our conversations very boundaried because I can’t be bothered listening to sexism. We get on fine and I’d say he hasn’t a clue I don’t particularly like him.