To think children did not used to get support for traumatic events?

[julieca]

This is just something I was talking about with DP. Looking back there were some difficult times. A boy in my class in secondary died of cancer. DP saw a friends brother die in front of him of a sudden asthma attack when he was 8 years old. A close friends father died when she was 15 of a sudden heart attack.
Although parents tried to support us, there was no formal support at all. No school counselling, no group support exercises, nothing. I don't know if this is the best approach or not, but surely these days the school especially would be offering support?

Mental health services are so bad these days that it could be a year or more before a child receives counselling (depending on your postcode)

@GreenLunchBox I know that. But it wasnt waiting a year then, there was nothing. The only child, a teenager I knew who used mental health services back then had been sectioned.

I'm not sure about this.

Yes it's more common now.

Mixed feelings.

I think it is good for those who need it etc.

Assuming there will be a level of upset that they won't be able to deal with is a mistake I think.

And approaching it as if it's a given will be unhelpful for those who are ok.

Iyswim.

@NiceGerbil I know what you mean. So I was ultimately okay. But I think I would have appreciated the school or teacher talking to us as a group about the boy dying. Instead, I don't remember a single teacher talking to us about it, until he was posthumously given a leaving certificate at a school assembly that his parents collected.
We were just left to process it ourselves and I do remember having confusing emotions around it.

This is going way back tbf, and may not be the kind of thing you mean, but I think kids did used to be expect to just get on with things up until relatively recently.

My grandma sadly lost twin girls to a premature birth and my mum remembers it very well. She remembers being really gutted and wondering why her mum had come home from the maternity unit with no baby (this was the 60s, I don’t think they knew it was twins). She said nobody explained anything to her and her mum was in bed grieving for weeks and my mum didn’t see her at all in this time. She remembers having her first day of school the week it happened and she didn’t want to go and was crying about it because of the trauma of what had happened and her dad just yanked her by the arms through the school gate and left her there. She was really emotionally neglected during this time. Nobody in the family or her school ever talked to her about her own confusion and grief and it’s something that has stayed with her.

Nowadays there are family bereavement services. And I’m sure a child’s school would want to know about what had happened at home in this situation to make provisions for supporting the child.

I understand totally what you mean. A boy I knew died when we were 13. We were just told he had died and then expected to get on with it. It was nearly 24 years ago and I've still never come to terms with it, I think because it was so badly handled by the adults.

@JCFJW Yes thanks, I am talking about the 70's, so a while ago as well.
I am aware in the 60's that many of the parents would themselves have been traumatised by war and had to just get on with it. So I can see why some parents would not have emotionally supported children through difficult times. Added to that for your mum was that at the time the official advice with premature births was to put it behind you, forget about it, and focus on trying to have another child.

@julieca
Some very good points there. My mum doesn't blame her parents as such, but I think she gets emotional when thinking about the confused little 4 year old she was, seeing mummy grieving and wondering where the baby was and not getting to talk to anybody about it or have a grown-up explain/comfort her.

In regards to school support, I think with something like this happening nowadays with a new reception starter the school would want to know and be involved with supporting the child.

I think it's a really good thing that children are helped through traumatic experiences.

I read an interview with a child psychologist where he stated that children who had undergone trauma needed, not more affection, but routines adhering to.

How true that is I’m not totally sure - he is the expert I suppose.

I think community spirit used to be much more of a thing though. People would have had support from neighbours, the local church, the local family GP and life was generally more basic- you couldn't psychoanalyse everything on Google/YouTube.

When I was primary school a child in the class above me died very suddenly.
I remember going to the funeral but there was definitely no support offered through the school. My parents didn't even speak to me about it after or see how I was. It was my first funeral and it was very upsetting, I still remember the wails from the childs mother and how she collapsed and had to be held up.

My parents were cold and emotionless anyway but unfortunately there are still parents like that so I do think schools should be obligated to provide support in those instances. That was mid 90s so yes it was a long time ago but times don't seem like they were that different either!

I have avoided all funerals since apart from one where a friend specifically asked me to go with her.

When my Dad died in 1994, I had just turned 17 and my brother was 15. We had absolutely no support or help whatsoever. Nothing was offered. School did nothing to help either of us. My mum had no support. It was very traumatic for us, yet there was no counselling or anything.
Mental health knowledge has improved but is woefully underfunded and so things access to services probably is very poor, but there is the internet to look up support for that there wasn’t much info online back then either.

Yep, that's right, there was no official support at all. My ( adopted) sister witnessed her father die from an asthma attack and she was just expected to get on with it. One of my friends from school was killed in a terrible car accident when we were about 12 - we all went to the funeral but nobody asked how we were coping or anything.

Why should it be schools that pay for this though also these days you can just talk to a teacher if needed I had counselling in the 90s social services set it up and they would for any kid that needed it if people asked

@Dddccc

Why should it be schools that pay for this though also these days you can just talk to a teacher if needed I had counselling in the 90s social services set it up and they would for any kid that needed it if people asked

You can't "just talk to a teacher". They are already insanely busy, and most aren't trained to deal with trauma.

@Dddccc

Why should it be schools that pay for this though also these days you can just talk to a teacher if needed I had counselling in the 90s social services set it up and they would for any kid that needed it if people asked

It shouldn't be the schools who pay for it, the support should be provided through the schools though.

Kids might not realise they need counselling or support and kids who don't get support at home are unlikely to think that they can ask a teacher for support.

@ciaoForDiNiaoSaur you would be surprised how many teachers deal with this kind of stuff daily I reported stuff to them they listened and took the time to help direct me and got me better help but it was the first step of many most kids dont need a trained psychiatric help they just need someone to confide in and talk to and be believed or have something explained to them also these days deaths of a pupil the head normally gets a few teacher to have a open door policy who you can go to also,

It was a different time back then. Bloody hell my parents used to smoke in the car when I was kid, it illegal now. I was baby sitting half the streets kids at 14 so their parents could go to the pub. Whisky in babies bottle to help them sleep - even further back

We can't compare todays standards by those that were held 40/50 years ago. Children were often an afterthought coming from the era of children should be seen and not heard. Its only really in the last 15 -years or so children have become more centred and their mental health looked at to prevent long term damage - which is mostly due to academics publishing studies in this era.

My cousin lost her mum suddenly at 13 ( 30 years ago) she was offered no support off the school/GP/any one but she was allowed to walk around the school field with a friend during lesson time if she was feeling sad.. I dont think the school at that time thought it was their problem to deal with. Their concern was that she was in school and safe.

There still in a long long way to go for even the child protection services. I read a really interesting article that there was hundreds of teenage school kids that were by themselves living in shared accommodation (with alcoholics and drug takers ) and these children were having to get themselves to school ect..

Typically children dont get treated very well.

Whisky in babies bottle to help them sleep - even further back

Yes, my DM was born in the 30's and when my baby was waking at night she recommended "Some brandy in his bottle" to settle him. That was apparently standard when she was a young mother.

@CiaoForDiNiaoSaur I've worked with children in the past and I know other teachers. Teachers will listen if a child discloses anything. Any one that has done child safeguarding will absolutely down tools and listen.

[quote Dddccc]@ciaoForDiNiaoSaur you would be surprised how many teachers deal with this kind of stuff daily I reported stuff to them they listened and took the time to help direct me and got me better help but it was the first step of many most kids dont need a trained psychiatric help they just need someone to confide in and talk to and be believed or have something explained to them also these days deaths of a pupil the head normally gets a few teacher to have a open door policy who you can go to also,[/quote]
I'm aware how many teachers are dealing with it. I'm also aware that they often don't have the training or time to be doing so but manage because they care.
In my experience the teachers who are asked to have the "open door policy" are the ones who have had extra training. My mums best friend, who was a teacher, had training in how to support children who had suffered some kind of loss. But she was the only one in the school who had.

Of course a teacher can be an appropriate person to help a child, but not always. My experience as a teen who needed support was that there wasn't any. And if there was no one signposted me to it. (Friend mentioned above hadn't done the training at that point. I've found out recently I'm one of the reasons she chose to do it)

I don't really see the issue with 14 year olds babysitting, it's kind of the ideal age I'd have said? But that's an aside.

I agree less of this used to happen through school. But I'm not sure that schools are particularly good at this sort of thing tbh, even now. What a lot of kids need in these situations is love and stability, and while schools can try and offer stability, you can't get love from a therapist. Schools aren't even all that good at being a friend to children and teachers can be discouraged from developing that kind of close relationship with kids.

There's also some truth to the idea that a fair bit of the time, the only real way to deal with difficult life problems is to carry on.

[quote Evesgarden]@CiaoForDiNiaoSaur I've worked with children in the past and I know other teachers. Teachers will listen if a child discloses anything. Any one that has done child safeguarding will absolutely down tools and listen.[/quote]
Yes I'm aware they will listen. But my point was that often children need actual qualified people to help. Teachers aren't those people. Not really. Not for real deep emotional support. They are teachers. We shouldn't be expecting them to be grief counsellors as well. (Although some of them are bloody fantastic).