Cleaners increase in hourly rate

[user1478790138]

Hello

First thread here so pls be gentle.

We have a largeish house in the Nottinghamshire, 6 BR, 4 BA and a fairly large ground floor, 2 children and dogs. Have had a pair of cleaners who come twice a week (initially three times but then it was to hectic for us) for several months now and paid £12ph, they want to increase it to 13.5 now. They do the cleaning and tidying, of which there is a fair amount but I don’t limit them time wise. Not sure now how to react, we’ve had them since March, somehow an increase of 100+ quid a month seems a bit steep in such a short period of time? What would you do??
Thank you

Home Counties here and standard rate is £15 p/h. Mine also brings all her own equipment and products.

To be a cleaner, all you have to do is answer an ad, be physically able to clean, and show up. No qualifications needed, no debts owed so they will never have to pay huge loans back with their £15 an hour.

To be a cleaner I bought a domain, made my own website, paid for a license to use someone's graphics and typeface, designed a website and wrote up a good blurb, made adverts for shop windows, set up Yell and Google accounts and advertised that way, bought (and buy) all my own cleaning materials (this included things like radiator dusters and extra long dusters for high ceilings and step ladders as well as cloths and liquid materials, took out insurance, paid for a DBS check, field calls and emails, visit potential clients (some of whom I don't take on), compile quotes, chase up payments, etc etc etc.

I'm puzzled as to why people are pitting cleaners and nurses against each other?

Is it some kind of bizarre race to the bottom? Nurses are badly paid and treated like shit, so self-employed cleaners have to be the same?

Yeah, that seems to be a common theme on here these days.

I'm a dog walker and can earn upto £40 an hour some days (£10 per dog, x 4 dogs). People have told me my prices are ridiculous but I have to pay for a lot out of that (business insurance, training, qualifications, fuel, car insurance, treats, poo bags, equipment, crates for transport...)

I also can't work for a straight 8 hours a day as I have to factor in drop offs, pick ups, transport between jobs, my own lunch break, toilet breaks, cleaning up dogs after walks and what I would do if a dog got injured on a walk etc.

So a six hour working day is normally only four hours of "paid" time. Like everyone else who is self-employed I have to factor in pension, sick pay, annual leave...

Don't get me wrong, I love my job and wouldn't swap but it's not as simple as "I can charge £40 an hour so that's what I take home". My take-home pay is much, much less than the rates my clients pay.

Listing all that I'm thinking I should forget £14 ph and go for £15 from next year!

Oh for goodness sake @WarmAndFluff* - did you not realise when you went into nursing that sick people didn't stop being sick at Christmas!

Actually, I'm not a nurse, I'm a biomedical scientist (in microbiology, during a pandemic, with fewer staff than we had before). I can see how you might think that since I work for the NHS

But leaving that aside, when I started (in the 90s) it wasn't as bad as it is now. We were better staffed so could largely take time off when we wanted, had better basic wages in comparison to cost of living, and weren't required to do night shifts and late shifts as part of our hours - we could top up our wages with much more family friendly on-call sessions on a voluntary basis (night shifts are compulsory)

But I agree, it's not a race to the bottom. Other people started the comparison between nurses and cleaners and I was trying to point out that it wasn't a comparison that was particularly fair.

@WarmAndFluff

Just for the record, nurses don't 'get' an NHS pension - they have to pay for it like everyone else, and since several changes to the NHS pension scheme over the last few years (2008 and 2015, as well as the changes more generally over the last couple of years which mean employers have to contribute a certain %) it isn't much different from any other employer pension scheme.

Also, I'm at the top of the NHS band 6 scale (not a nurse) with 2 degrees and over 20 years experience, and after tax and NI (which I still have to pay out of my wages by the way, why do people think we don't?) I earn a lower hourly rate than most cleaners - and then have to pay for my NHS pension out of that.

I can easily be working 50 hours a week, and am too exhausted at the end of the day to come back and do any more than cook dinner for all of us, do the most basic tidying, one load of washing, try to do homework with the kids, and collapse, but since cleaners wages have jumped compared to inflation (unlike mine!) I can't buy in more help, so I'm considering cutting my hours to cope instead.

You're forgetting the employers pension contribution and the benefits of the NHS scheme.

A self employed person would get nothing like the same pension, lump sum, etc by paying the same amount that you pay out of your wages into a personal pension plan.

We are in the SE and Our cleaning company have now raised their rates to £18 an hour! It's slowly been going up. We absolutely love our usual cleaner but this has become quite ridiculous now. I think we are going to have to look for someone else

[quote RoseStar]@madisonbridges I’m an unpaid carer for a family member as well so I can’t increase my hours.

You’re right though, I could just go and get a job as a gardener or cleaner. But then who would fill the skilled roles that people like me, nurses, teachers etc do? You might not think my job is worth much, but we do work for govt departments that make a difference to everyone through policy, in fact I guarantee one of the changes we pushed for will be benefiting almost every parent on here right now, there are so many unseen people behind how society is working.

That’s the risk, I’m all for improving living standards but if the real pay of people in skilled roles is eroded to the extent that they can earn more in an unskilled role then we become a very different society with some worrying implications for some of our most important sectors and services.[/quote]
Oh do fuck off with your skilled and unskilled roles!!! Being a cleaner or carer or gardener are very much skilled professions! Attitudes like yours absolutely stink!!!

I was a cleaner a few years ago and did this. I realised I'd priced myself way too cheap and bumped up the price with my customers 1 month later, who agreed (and seemed embarrassed that they'd got me so cheap to begin with). Considering no sick pay, holiday pay, extra NI and business costs.

I think £15ph would be standard in Notts, so you've still got a very good deal, but expect it will likely go up.

@Dobbyafreeelf - they’re standard definitions of social groups for labour market analysis , used the world over.

[quote RoseStar]@Dobbyafreeelf - they’re standard definitions of social groups for labour market analysis , used the world over.[/quote]
No they are outdated and vile! Your time is worth no more than anyone else's. And I'm sick to the back teeth of you thinking you deserve more because you twatted about at university for a few years.

Nope they’re standard. You don’t need a university degree to Google it.

I suggest you join a union @RoseStar, if you haven't already done so, and lobby for a higher wage increase and strike if you don't get it instead of bemoaning all us unskilled people charging too much for our services.

We'll charge what we want and if you feel you're underpaid in comparison it's up to you to do something about that, not us.

No they are outdated and vile! Your time is worth no more than anyone else's. And I'm sick to the back teeth of you thinking you deserve more because you twatted about at university for a few years.

Of course some people’s time is worth more than others

That’s LITERALLY why some people get paid more than others

@RoseStar

Nope they’re standard. You don’t need a university degree to Google it.

I don't give a monkeys if they are standard or not! Believing that your time is worth more is just wrong. But as with everything in this shitty society the ones who do the really important jobs are the ones the worst treated!

@SW1amp

No they are outdated and vile! Your time is worth no more than anyone else's. And I'm sick to the back teeth of you thinking you deserve more because you twatted about at university for a few years.

Of course some people’s time is worth more than others

That’s LITERALLY why some people get paid more than others

I agree but a nurse's time, or a refuse operator's time or a road sweeper's time or a carer's time or a lorry driver's time are all worth a hell of a lot more than many of those who do get paid a fortune for their time.

@SW1amp

No they are outdated and vile! Your time is worth no more than anyone else's. And I'm sick to the back teeth of you thinking you deserve more because you twatted about at university for a few years.

Of course some people’s time is worth more than others

That’s LITERALLY why some people get paid more than others

If all the accountants, politicians, managers, auditors and thousands of other "professions fucked off today the world would be a better place.

If carers, lorry drivers, cleaners, bin men disappeared tomorrow you would all be fucked.

So your right jot everyone's time is equal the supposedly "unskilled workers" time is a hell of a lot more valuable to society!!!

@SelfEmployedCleaner ohhh cut the crap the lot of you. I haven’t said anywhere that cleaners are charging too much . I’ve said many skilled workers are often not getting paid enough. We can’t afford as a society to lose them.

Life is relative. If you don’t like that then perhaps socialism is for you

@Dobbyafreeelf I’m glad you were freed, it seems to have done wonders for your happiness

YABU. If you don't want to pay it then do your own cleaning.

@SelfEmployedCleaner

That’s a debate for another thread, but generally, the rate of pay relates to how many people are available and able to do that job

Cleaning is generally a job that has very few barriers to entry and can be done by a lot of people so was fairly low paid compared to jobs where there is a smaller pool of people able to do the job

But as several posters on this thread have said, a good cleaner or housekeeper is worth a lot to some people, and they are prepared to pay a premium to have someone who is trustworthy, knows their house, does a good job etc

It doesn’t mean that the bones of the job are any more skilled, just that the person has found a ‘value add’ that some people are prepared to pay a premium for

For example, my MIL is happy with a basic and cheap service from an agency where they send someone different every week
Her expectation is for someone to run and mop and hoover around and clean the bathroom
There are very few people over the age of 16 who couldn’t do what she wants, so she pays the bare minimum for it
If her cleaner put rates up, she could find someone else willing to work for less and not notice a difference to service

However I think my housekeeper is key the running my house, not because she has superior hoovering skills but because she will spot when the dishwasher salt is running low, or when the dog bowls need washing, and knows which wardrobe which of my clothes go in or a hundred other things
For that, I pay a premium because I can’t face the hassle of losing her and having to show someone else the ropes

But that doesn’t mean she is ‘skilled’, just that she has learned how to keep me happy enough to pay her a lot more so she doesn’t leave

On a lighter note...
m.youtube.com/watch?v=fMoPR2IA2Uk

I tried out a new cleaner this week. She asked for 13/HR same as my usual cleaner. She was nowhere near as good. Although a few niggles with my usual cleaner will be keeping her. If they are good and efficient keep them.

@Dobbyafreeelf

The difference is that when unskilled workers disappear (as we’ve seen to a degree recently with shortages of drivers and cleaners and various other workers), it is relatively easy to recruit new workers to those jobs with a bit of a pay rise to attract people back, or into, the role
The problem can be fixed easily and quickly because unskilled and semi-skilled roles can be filled by a very wide pool of people, especially when the price is right

When skilled workers disappear, it is more problematic
You can’t just raise the pay and wait for applications to flood in for surgeons or lawyers or auditors. It takes years to train people to a certain standard to be competent and legally compliant
So generally, the pay is always kept high in those roles to attract people to them as careers and keep them from leaving

That doesn’t mean lower paid workers don’t make a valuable contribution with their work
It just means they are easier to replace if they want to quit

[quote SW1amp]@Dobbyafreeelf

The difference is that when unskilled workers disappear (as we’ve seen to a degree recently with shortages of drivers and cleaners and various other workers), it is relatively easy to recruit new workers to those jobs with a bit of a pay rise to attract people back, or into, the role
The problem can be fixed easily and quickly because unskilled and semi-skilled roles can be filled by a very wide pool of people, especially when the price is right

When skilled workers disappear, it is more problematic
You can’t just raise the pay and wait for applications to flood in for surgeons or lawyers or auditors. It takes years to train people to a certain standard to be competent and legally compliant
So generally, the pay is always kept high in those roles to attract people to them as careers and keep them from leaving

That doesn’t mean lower paid workers don’t make a valuable contribution with their work
It just means they are easier to replace if they want to quit[/quote]
😂😂😂😂 if you think it's easy to recruit people into care or work as lorry drivers. You have no clue at all do you!!!

You wouldn't have any of these problems if carers or lorry drivers were given even a fraction of respect. Or if they were recognised as professions rather than stop gaps till something better comes along.