To ask about Jeff Bezos and the moon

[SoniaFouler]

I’ve read about it a few times but still don’t understand. Is Jeff Bezos suing NASA because they wont let him have access to the moon or because they let Elon Musk have priority access to the moon over him? Why does NASA even have any control rights over the moon of planet Earth? Or am I misunderstanding all of this?

I had a quick read of an article and it’s a contract to building the lander, they don’t get access to the moon. Initially nasa said they’d pick 2 companies for redundancies but only picked one due to cut of proposed budget, so they went with Elon musks company

@HerRoyalNotness

I had a quick read of an article and it’s a contract to building the lander, they don’t get access to the moon. Initially nasa said they’d pick 2 companies for redundancies but only picked one due to cut of proposed budget, so they went with Elon musks company

But this is what I don’t understand. A moon lander is just an object to land on the moon. Why does anyone need NASA’s permission? Do they have rights to the moon?

But this is what I don’t understand. A moon lander is just an object to land on the moon. Why does anyone need NASA’s permission? Do they have rights to the moon?

It’s not about permission, spaceX won the contract to work with NASA on a specific programme.

@SickAndTiredAgain

But this is what I don’t understand. A moon lander is just an object to land on the moon. Why does anyone need NASA’s permission? Do they have rights to the moon?

It’s not about permission, spaceX won the contract to work with NASA on a specific programme.

I still don’t understand. Is Jeff Bezos suing NASA because they wanted to work with Elon Musk’s company instead of his then? Is that it? Did NASA previously promise JB an exclusive contract or something?

I still don’t understand. Is Jeff Bezos suing NASA because they wanted to work with Elon Musk’s company instead of his then?

Yes, essentially. He’s saying they were unfair in their evaluation of the proposals, and NASA initially said they’d give the contract to 2 companies, and then gave it to 1. It’s just like any contract that goes out to tender I think, companies bid for the work, give their proposals etc, and then someone wins the contract. He is saying their process was unfair.

@SickAndTiredAgain

I still don’t understand. Is Jeff Bezos suing NASA because they wanted to work with Elon Musk’s company instead of his then?

Yes, essentially. He’s saying they were unfair in their evaluation of the proposals, and NASA initially said they’d give the contract to 2 companies, and then gave it to 1. It’s just like any contract that goes out to tender I think, companies bid for the work, give their proposals etc, and then someone wins the contract. He is saying their process was unfair.

This makes much more sense and I wish it was laid out clearer in some of the articles I read. Thank you.

It's not about access to the moon.

NASA wanted to build a lander on the moon and accepted bids on how much it would cost to do this. Bezos' company put in a large bid expecting NASA would then negotiate the price down but, due to their finding being cut, they didn't and instead chose the bid made by Elon Musk which was cheaper.

Bezos' then got his knickers in a twist about it being unfair, discouraging competition and competitive market practices (oh the irony), and so on. They referred it to the watchdog and then started a legal challenge. Its the contract decision that's bring challenged rather than access to the moon.

Crossposted with SickAndTiredAgain.

@Clocktopus

It's not about access to the moon.

NASA wanted to build a lander on the moon and accepted bids on how much it would cost to do this. Bezos' company put in a large bid expecting NASA would then negotiate the price down but, due to their finding being cut, they didn't and instead chose the bid made by Elon Musk which was cheaper.

Bezos' then got his knickers in a twist about it being unfair, discouraging competition and competitive market practices (oh the irony), and so on. They referred it to the watchdog and then started a legal challenge. Its the contract decision that's bring challenged rather than access to the moon.

This also makes much more sense.

But I wonder, why doesn’t JB just make and send his own lander to the moon if he lost that bid? It’s not like he can’t afford it. Could he do that? Or does he need NASA’s permission? And therefore, does NASA have rights over the moon?

What is it with billionaires and their tiny rockets.

All those so-called experts refuting inequality and who were like "all that wealth will trickle down..." No, it bloody hasn't. They're literally using that wealth to piss about in space for no reason other than the bants and lolz.

But I wonder, why doesn’t JB just make and send his own lander to the moon if he lost that bid? It’s not like he can’t afford it. Could he do that? Or does he need NASA’s permission? And therefore, does NASA have rights over the moon?

You don't need permission to put anything in the moon but you do need permission to launch stuff into orbit/launch stuff off the Earth.

I think this is about the clearest article about it.

www.bbc.com/news/business-58235479

It basically comes down to funding. As a pp said, NASA had originally said they would select two companies to build a lunar lander, but due to funding cuts, they were only able to select one. (They do this so if one is rubbish, they can use the other instead.)

Jeff Bezos finds it wildly unfair that NASA chose the cheaper and potentially more reliable (and definitely more experienced) company, but is possibly rightfully angry that NASA first committed to choosing 2 companies, then moved the goalposts and only chose one (which is why he’s suing, as his company potentially lost out.)

Bezos isn’t suing about access to the moon. They need NASA “permission” (although that’s not quite the right word!) as it’s a NASA funded, NASA staffed collaboration, using NASA resources.

It’s not a case of NASA denying permission for Jeff Bezos to launch an independent mission. Blue origin bid for a NASA contract but their offer wasn’t good enough/cheap enough for what NASA needed.

Hope that makes sense? It gets a bit like a soap opera when you dig into who’s suing who for what, and who’s passive aggressively subtweeting who

@dangerrabbit,

'overcompensating'.

Truly, the symbolism is the gift that keeps on giving...

@Clocktopus

You don't need permission to put anything in the moon but you do need permission to launch stuff into orbit/launch stuff off the Earth.

From who?

@BewareTheLibrarians

I think this is about the clearest article about it.

www.bbc.com/news/business-58235479

It basically comes down to funding. As a pp said, NASA had originally said they would select two companies to build a lunar lander, but due to funding cuts, they were only able to select one. (They do this so if one is rubbish, they can use the other instead.)

Jeff Bezos finds it wildly unfair that NASA chose the cheaper and potentially more reliable (and definitely more experienced) company, but is possibly rightfully angry that NASA first committed to choosing 2 companies, then moved the goalposts and only chose one (which is why he’s suing, as his company potentially lost out.)

Bezos isn’t suing about access to the moon. They need NASA “permission” (although that’s not quite the right word!) as it’s a NASA funded, NASA staffed collaboration, using NASA resources.

It’s not a case of NASA denying permission for Jeff Bezos to launch an independent mission. Blue origin bid for a NASA contract but their offer wasn’t good enough/cheap enough for what NASA needed.

Hope that makes sense? It gets a bit like a soap opera when you dig into who’s suing who for what, and who’s passive aggressively subtweeting who

Is this correct in the way I’m reading it: Two people go for a job role in a company but then the company says, actually, we don’t need two people to do this job, just one person, and then the second unsuccessful person sues the hiring company for not hiring them despite not confirming they would hire and pay them? Is that right?

It is like a soap opera! I have read tweets about being sued over the moon and how Amazon doesn’t control the entire planet. So confused!

@SoniaFouler

In the USA you need permission from the FAA (federal aviation authority, who have a space division). They check safety and environmental concerns around the launch site and the effects of the launch itself (gasses released, potential area of fallout of the rocket explodes mid-flight etc)

NASA doesn’t give “permission” for private companies to launch, unless they’re launching from NASA owned pads. SpaceX, for eg, have leased pads at Kennedy space centre from NASA to launch their rockets.

Is this correct in the way I’m reading it: Two people go for a job role in a company but then the company says, actually, we don’t need two people to do this job, just one person, and then the second unsuccessful person sues the hiring company for not hiring them despite not confirming they would hire and pay them? Is that right?

Pretty much Especially if the company in your example was well known for hiring 2 or 3 people at a time, but this year only hired one, which is their absolute legal right to do, even if it leaves person 2 and person 3 unhired.

Making it more complicated, NASA and SpaceX already have a history of collaborating, so it could be seen as favouritism by JB that SpaceX were chosen again, like the kid that always gets to be the main role in the school play

But I wonder, why doesn’t JB just make and send his own lander to the moon if he lost that bid? It’s not like he can’t afford it.

And pay for it himself? when he could have NASA pay for it!

@MrsRobbieHart

So if NASA doesn’t control or own the moon and Jess Bezos wants to send a lander to the moon, why doesn’t he just do so without the permission from NASA? Or is this just a lawsuit against what he perceives to be illegal and he might do that anyway? Sorry for all the questions, I am just left quite bamboozled on this entire thing.

@SoniaFouler

So if NASA doesn’t control or own the moon and Jess Bezos wants to send a lander to the moon, why doesn’t he just do so without the permission from NASA? Or is this just a lawsuit against what he perceives to be illegal and he might do that anyway? Sorry for all the questions, I am just left quite bamboozled on this entire thing.

If he won the contract, he’d have been paid. The contract was worth $2.9bn

They explain it better here than I would!

arstechnica.com/science/2021/08/this-is-probably-why-blue-origin-keeps-protesting-nasas-lunar-lander-award/

But basically, once you have your foot in the door with nasa, you’re likely to be awarded more contracts down line (so more money from NASA) without him having to spend as much of his own.

There’s also the more “personal” battle between Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk, with both sides pinging criticism of each other’s vehicles at each other, so probably an element of massive bloody egos as well. I’m sure JB is aware that his rockets are not as proven with human and non-human cargo, while SpaceX are now running regular cargo missions to the International Space Station for NASA, as well as crewed flights. He knows he’s on the back foot.

Because Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk are having a willy waving contest and Musk won. Jeff can't handle this so is suing Nasa for refusing to contemplate the awesomeness of his billion dollar willy rocket.

@SoniaFouler

So if NASA doesn’t control or own the moon and Jess Bezos wants to send a lander to the moon, why doesn’t he just do so without the permission from NASA? Or is this just a lawsuit against what he perceives to be illegal and he might do that anyway? Sorry for all the questions, I am just left quite bamboozled on this entire thing.

Because Bezos didn’t want the contract so he could build a moon lander. He wanted the contract so he could make a fortune out of NASA. If they’d offered a contract to paint all millionaires purple he’d have wanted it. Not because he wants to paint anyone purple…

Also, w/o NASA he would not only have to build his own lander, but his own rocket, his own spaceport, his own control center etc.