To think GPs should do their job

[Wotnokids]

Just heard the news that £250million is to be made available to GPs to 'increase the amount of face to face appointments'. AIBU to think this is just extra cash for doing their job?

@ARudeTerriblePerson Yep. This means every stupid person wanting to see a GP because they have a bit of a sore throat or a cold has to be given face to face. Which will harm those patients who really are ill and need their GPs.

GPs complain about being demonised, yet the GPs on this thread and their most ardent supporters demonise patients. "Too many old people" - nice; are we advocating euthanasie? "Worried well" - and now "every stupid person". Members of the public may not have all the fancy degree certificates of a GP, but - hey! - they are still human and are allowed to want to go on living.

@ARudeTerriblePerson Yes you are rude, your user name is apt and you are lying about what has been said by quoting out of context. You are obviously just here to slag off GPs. You have an issue with your GP practice. That does not mean all GPs are like that. And being honest, seeing how you twist what other posters have said on this thread, I suspect what you say about your GP is also a twisting of reality.

I am very sympathetic to GPs as it’s pretty clear they are each being asked to do the work of 2 or 3 people.

However, I’m also genuinely afraid of my family getting ill because there is no reliable healthcare any more. It’s scary. I think people get very agitated about this issue for that reason. And phone/ video appointments are great tools, but it doesn’t help when surgeries install systems that prevent people with jobs from accessing those systems. Telephone and video appointments need to be scheduled; most of us can’t sit around all day waiting for a call.

[quote julieca]@ARudeTerriblePerson Yep. This means every stupid person wanting to see a GP because they have a bit of a sore throat or a cold has to be given face to face. Which will harm those patients who really are ill and need their GPs.[/quote]
This IS what you posted.

@Carrotsandbroccoli I think that's how most of us feel.

The system is broken, primary healthcare is no longer available to us, and it needs to be acknowledged before more people die because of it.

Primary healthcare is available to me. And I have accessed it a number of times over the last year. I am worried that these proposals will just lead to more GPs leaving and I could be left without access to primary healthcare.
The government need to increase the number of GPs. That is the real issue.

[quote ARudeTerriblePerson]@Carrotsandbroccoli I think that's how most of us feel.

The system is broken, primary healthcare is no longer available to us, and it needs to be acknowledged before more people die because of it.[/quote]
I am very sympathetic to GPs as it’s pretty clear they are each being asked to do the work of 2 or 3 people

That would sort of work, if you hadn't been attacking your GP throughout this thread.

While I am on board with video and telephone appointments, people need to remember that it’s not accessible for many people. There’s a not insignificant proportion of people who can’t use technology, perhaps due to poverty, dementia or a learning disability.
My GP surgery is flexible and I happily accept a virtual appt because I don’t always need face to face and I’d rather they saved it for those who do. @Skysblue you need face to face for many element of medical care - examination of abdomen, listening to lungs and heart and examining wounds etc .

@ARudeTerriblePerson yes because most people who access primary care do so with very minor stuff that does need a f2f appointment.
But some of us access GPs that in years gone by used to be handled by Consultants and registrars at hospital. Lots has been handed down to GPs.

@Mickarooni and my GP surgery offers f2f for those who need it.
My relative with a serious mental illness has been offered f2f throughout the pandemic.

[quote julieca]@Mickarooni and my GP surgery offers f2f for those who need it.
My relative with a serious mental illness has been offered f2f throughout the pandemic.[/quote]
Mine does too but some people do forget how many people cannot access virtual appts.

@ARudeTerriblePerson

If you read the proposals, I think the idea is that patients must be given a choice, and must be able to see a GP f2f if they want.

My DH is a GP practice partner and sees patients f2f and remotely daily. However if too many want a f2f appointment, there can be up to a three week wait.

@Mickarooni any decent GP knows this. It is why my relative with a serious mental illness has been offered f2f appointments all through the pandemic.

@mbosnz

Pragmatically, creating an unappreciative, hostile environment towards GP's is ultimately self defeating. GP's are already in high demand, with insufficient of them to go around. Making it even less attractive means more are going to hang up their stethoscopes earlier, or look elsewhere for employment, with better pay, conditions, and attitudes towards them.

This post didn't get the credit it deserves. The hostile environment simply means more doctors leaving, fewer entering as they see the remaining doctors struggling even more and the problem getting worse.

Much of this discussion is moot - a greater proportion of F2F will simply result in fewer appointments overall as there isn't the staffing to expand capacity, "Winter money" or not.

The system is broken, primary healthcare is no longer available to us, and it needs to be acknowledged
It is acknowledged, very much so,but you don't get GPs out of thin air, nor any medical students wishing to become one when all they see is a profession that has lost its medical expertise to be replaced by bureaucracy and paper work, whilst dealing with patients more and more demanding and ever less appreciative and respectful.

I had very disappointing face to face appointment and the most fantastic exchange with a locum go on the phone.

F2f is definitely not always the best mean of contact. However, telephone appts should indeed be scheduled. So much time wasted calling patients who are not available, patients calling reception to say they missed appt, for them to say go will call again and then repeat.

[quote julieca]@Mickarooni any decent GP knows this. It is why my relative with a serious mental illness has been offered f2f appointments all through the pandemic.[/quote]
Yes but I’m talking to people on forums and in the wider world who are very pro virtual appts.

, My telephone appointments are roughly scheduled, but they can't be exact. More like home delivery from supermarkets - between 11 and 12. Because if a patient needs a longer appointment because of something urgent say they come in very suicidal, they cant just say, okay time over and finish.

@julieca

Primary healthcare is available to me. And I have accessed it a number of times over the last year. I am worried that these proposals will just lead to more GPs leaving and I could be left without access to primary healthcare. The government need to increase the number of GPs. That is the real issue.

Primary healthcare is available in theory. But it winds me up when people, often on this very site, say ‘give your GP a call’ as if that’s a thing. That’s NOT a thing!! You cannot ‘give your GP a call any more than you can give the Queen a call.

If you are in dire need of medical attention, you can spend a day trying to get through to a doctor on the phone, or you can fill in a form and THEN take a day off waiting for a call. It’s unacceptable.

This thread shows so many of the issues - too many patients wanting too many things from too few doctors

First theirs a poster saying that they want f2f and not to use the telephone or e consult
Then there’s another poster saying why aren’t GPs using more technology to speed things up

Then theirs a poster saying we need to train more GPs
Followed by a poster saying why are GPs spending time training juniors rather than seeing patients

Then there’s a post about how all GPs should work full time (so less women will be GPs)
And then a poster complaining that there aren’t enough female doctors at her practice

Then someone complains that GPs are doing too many routine admin tasks and things that can be done by nurses etc
Then another poster comes along and says the issue is too many backroom staff at their practice
And then a few posters who say they don’t want to see nurses why can’t they see a doctor

A poster complains that her GP haven’t closed the list when the practice is full
Followed by a poster complaining that all the practices around her have closed their lists and she can’t register

A poster thinks that GPs should co locate in hospitals as then then will work more another poster wants them to stay local….

Make up your minds people.

At is core it’s very simple: there are more people wanting appointments than their are GPs to offer appointments

The only way to fix it is to hire more GPs. The pay is OK, the conditions are awful. So the conditons need fixing.

And as an aside GPs do need to spend time in training themselves - medicine moves on and they need to keep abreast of it so that needs to be built in to the work schedule

DOI GP trainee

@Carrotsandbroccoli - exactly.

"The only way to fix it is to hire more GPs. " Not true. There are plenty of other solutions. It's the system that is broken.

I think many people lack critical thinking skills when forming and voicing their views on this.

Yes, GPs earn more money than many workers and don’t necessarily work longer hours than many workers, but that doesn’t mean they should be working more for the same money. On the basis of that argument, everyone should earn the same/work the same hours and we know that’s not the reality, nor a basis for saying certain groups should work more etc.

People fail to appreciate what GPs have faced over the last years and particularly during Covid. All they can think of is their own personal situation and cannot see the bigger picture at all. Resourcing if the NGS and GPs is down. There simply aren’t enough GPs. Numbers have dropped. At the same time, GPs have seen more patients in one form or another. Clearly, there is a dis-connect.

Most people should be able to appreciate that in-person appointments take longer, so in the available time, less people can be seen. Therefore, the choice is to continue to offer some online/phone appointments and see more people, or by returning to F2F for everything, less people can be seen and people have to wait longer.

Isn’t the key thing, that those who really NEED F2F and cannot access other forms of service have it. Those who CAN be seen online etc, can be seen that way at least in a first instance. What exactly is the problem with this, as long as people have access??

This extra money won’t suddenly mean more immediate services. It’s not the case that GPs require more money to work longer hours. Most cannot work longer hours as they are at full capacity. More GPs need to be trained. That takes a good 10 years from deciding to do it.

It’s like saying catch-up schools can run in the holidays and teachers can be paid extra to run them. No….they don’t want to do that, even if there is more money and already do their job. More staff are needed to make it happen.

Much of the complaint is essentially people renewing the fact that some workers earn so much more than others. And it’s about having zero understanding of the overall situation and system, but purely having a sense of wanting what an individual wants right now in the form they want.

A F2F system for all app

Sorry…hit send by mistake.

A F2F system where everyone with a minor cold can attend a F2F appointment with a short waiting time, CANNOT be delivered with current resourcing and the extra funding promised yeserday won’t deliver it either. They estimate it will allow most GP surgeries to offer an extra 47 days of 1 extra GP locum…..if they can find one who can do it…..and they probably won’t be able to.

Funding isn’t available for what people want. Technology means many appointments (not all) can be offered by phone or online. It is the reality. People need to get used to it and understand the VAST injection of cash that would be needed to deliver anything else is never going to be forthcoming, and even if it were, it would take 10 years to see major change.