To think that wages have gone down A LOT in the past 20 years or so

[Poetrypatty]

I'm looking at some roles where the amount offered is probably what would have been offered for that job, or possibly even less, than what you'd have got paid in about 1999. And that's often for graduates where you wouldn't have needed a degree back then and you do now. That's not even taking into account inflation or house prices.

I'm talking started and mid level office roles in particular rather than NMW jobs. I do think at the higher end wages have gone up, managers etc. For those who are old enough to remember, AIBU?

[CorianderAndCream]

@Oldgoat2021 😂 you got more per hour to transcribe media work in 2003 than I'm paid to be the media today

[KittyBurrito]

This is such an enlightening thread (although a very depressing one). Do any of the economists on this thread know why this has happened?

[Ibelieveinghosts]

Mod level professional service role c £50k in 2007, c£50k 2021.

There seems to have been a narrative since the 2008 crash that professionals should be glad to have a job. So coupled with a 15 year pay freeze they are being worked into the ground expected to work 24/7and be grateful -covid has been a wake up call to many and now everyone is leaving and forms struggling to fill vacancies.

[flowersmakeitbetter]

Just speaking to a friend about this and her CEO's total pay package has risen from just under £1m to almost £4m in 15 years.........

Meanwhile her pay has gone up about £15k. She's his PA.

[Kendodd]

I wonder how much of it I'd due to the decline in union membership?

[ThePriceOfSugar]

An acquaintance started his grad position at a law firm on NZ$47,000 in 2001.

I started my grad position at the big 4 at exactly the same amount in 2020.

MEDIAN house cost in Auckland is over $1 million.

I moved countries.

[Camomila]

I saw a social scientist role advertised for 20-22k the other day, I was really surprised at that (I didn't apply).
My straight forward admin job doesn't pay much less fall time.

[ronkey]

There's also been a move where those at the top have seen huge gains in their packages which obviously leaves less to go around for the staff as in @flowersmakeitbetter example.

I also think the whole "you should be grateful for a job" rhetoric hasn't helped & is incredibly reductive. Unfortunately it's still very much in existence.

[DespairingHomeowner]

@flowersmakeitbetter

Just speaking to a friend about this and her CEO's total pay package has risen from just under £1m to almost £4m in 15 years.........

Meanwhile her pay has gone up about £15k. She's his PA.

Maybe I will get flamed for this, but I haven’t got £1k a year rises for doing the same job (if the responsibilities haven’t increased?)

I’m getting paid what I was in 2015, now doing my bosses job & managing 2 people who were doing the job I did back then…

[simkin38]

Anyone got an idea what to do about this?

I feel trapped in the £80-90k band work all hours, high housing & childcare overheads. dH works 12h a day.

Thought it was worth living in London to be newr work as assumed salaries would rise.

Was thinking yesterday for the 11h a day and half of Sundays I work, would I be better off working 2 different jobs to cover same hours?

Consultancy is client-based so might not be long term. Not sure what else to do to increase pay.

[Iwab82]

Yes, I am getting paid similar wages now for similar job I did in 2000. Only difference is workload is massive now.

[DespairingHomeowner]

@simkin38: are you thinking 2x 40k jobs would be easier? They’d probably be less stressful but hard to find employment flexible emough to make it work

Do you want think that 11h day + few hours on weekend expectation is the same for all your peers?

Maybe one way is to set up on your own if your career allows that

[flowersmakeitbetter]

@simkin38

Anyone got an idea what to do about this?

I feel trapped in the £80-90k band work all hours, high housing & childcare overheads. dH works 12h a day.

Thought it was worth living in London to be newr work as assumed salaries would rise.

Was thinking yesterday for the 11h a day and half of Sundays I work, would I be better off working 2 different jobs to cover same hours?

Consultancy is client-based so might not be long term. Not sure what else to do to increase pay.

No, I don't think you would be better off because the overwork is affecting everyone at every level. The higher up the chain the more control you will have.

How many times on these threads do people suggest delegating down?

I have a couple of friends doing admin jobs who are completely run ragged. They're not even well paid!

There is an assumption that the jobs at the bottom carry no stress whatsoever. That might have been true back in the day but considering there are literally no support staff and some job descriptions are 'say yes to whatever you are asked to do' then you can potentially be a lot worse off with a 'less responsibility' job.

[LakieLady]

I started working in homelessness prevention/housing support in 2007, and the pay worked out at 2.5 times minimum wage. Years of public spending cuts & inflation have meant that, despite several small pay rises, the salary for the same role is now 1.5 x NMW.

I make that a 40% pay cut, in real terms.

[Gettingthereslowly2020]

I have a close friend who is older than me, she is in her 60s and I'm in my early 30s. We've talked a lot about this over the years.

When my friend was my age, she had a GCSE level of education and was employed in a basic admin job. She bought a house on her own. Years later, she's moved up the property ladder, saved a lot of the money she gained and retired in her 50s. She's now planning to move abroad.

My life is completely different. I'm university educated and working in a higher level job than my friend was in at my age. I rent privately and can't afford to buy a propery alone. If everything goes to plan career wise and house prices don't continue to rise, I should be able to buy a property in my early 40s. Unless I have a lottery win, there's no chance of me being able to retire in my 50s.

Life seems to be much harder now

[TheUnbearable]

Despairinghomeowner house prices where I live in East Midlands have gone up almost 450%, house next door that is exactly the same as mine has just sold. I know my last job has had a wage rise of about 25% over 22 years.

[DespairingHomeowner]

@TheUnbearable - I know ☹️

@Gettingthereslowly2020: I think your illustration really brings it to life. My own parents bought a house early 80s on 1 wage (manual job/didn’t require a degree). I’ve been able to buy a small, modest house in my mid 40s… and I’m (laughably) in top 2-5% of salary bands in UK. Inheritance/getting on ladder earlier makes a massive difference

Back to my Sunday WFH doing free overtime

[Eleganz]

When I first started in the private sector my wages rose quite a lot quite quickly to almost double over 6 years. Since then having moved into the public sector my salary has largely stagnated. I thought this was just a thing about being in the public sector but speaking to old friends in the private sector their pay has done the same thing.

I recently was on a 6 month secondment in a senior management role (reporting directly to a director) and a key reason I declined to be considered for the role permanently was that the small pay rise I got simply did not justify the hugely increased responsibility, stress and longer working hours it took to do that job. Of course I didn't tell them that! Much happier I am now back in my normal role!

My view is that things will have to reach a real crisis point before wages start going up. At the moment people are flocking to the public sector for the apparent security so that may make the private sector move on wages.

[VaguelyInteresting]

YANBU.

I earn well but between childcare costs and rent, as a single parent, at the age of 34 I’ve made my peace that I’ll never be able to save enough for a house deposit before I’m so old that a mortgage becomes untenable, so I’ll never own. Besides which my credit score is trashed because I got into debt paying childcare after a separation and had to take out a DMP. So that’s it for me.

I’ve started ploughing any spare cash into a savings account and will use it to travel with DS. I’m worried about retirement (have a pension but unlikely to be anything spectacular. And don’t trust it’ll be there anyway, by the time I try to draw
it down) but I want to leave DS with something of me- and if it can’t be a home, it might as well be amazing memories.

And yes, this is all ultimately because house prices have skyrocketed and wages have stagnated. It’s literally defined my life, and probably DS’ to an extent.

[PaperMonster]

@DespairingHomeowner you’re not alone. I’ve just left a job after 13 years. Public sector. No pay rise at all in the last ten years. I’m qualified to post grad level to do that job. I’m now doing what people might class as quite ‘menial’ self employed work and earning as much as I was in that job. Less stress too!!

[Gettingthereslowly2020]

Another example, I know a couple in their 60s. Beautiful, expensive home. Holidays abroad 3-4 times a year with weekends away inbetween. They have 3 adult children. They both retired in their mid to late 50s.

At first, I assumed they must have been high earning business people before they retired. Nope, they worked as a nurse and a police officer. There's no way a nurse and a police officer could have that kind of lifestyle now. There are threads on here with nurses struggling to pay basic bills.

[AlphabetAerobics]

I questioned this with my parents once as they had a friend-couple who lived in a v expensive house/land/etc.

My mother (who’d never worked but lived a similar lifestyle) told me that her friend worked VERY hard and deserved his house.

Her friend was an unqualified (ie, 3 o-levels and a typing certificate) part-time vet receptionist.

Meanwhile, I have a friend who is an ACTUAL vet has a council house and tax credit top-ups…

I guess she just didn’t work as hard.

[guwv]

I've just had a look at the inflation calculator - my first job after uni was as an administrator in a NFP on £17.7k in London in 2001. This equates to about 30k today and no way would a grad with little experience get that today. So wages have absolutely stagnated whilst life has become a lot more expensive especially if you live in London.In my profession, our package gets negotiated nationally so it's actually a lot worse to be living here than anywhere else but jobs are scarce so people just take what they can.

On the other hand, my impression is that if you work in tech, almost any tech - your pay is pretty good. Similarly in law and banking

[DespairingHomeowner]

For a lot of my friends (mid 40s) 1 parent does contracting rather than a permanent job as it pays more - and the other has a part time & more flexible job to fit round kids. I think part of issue is pay difference of perm vs temp jobs

[WholeClassKeptIn]

Wow guw that is depressing. I'm a similar age and I am earning less than I did when I graduated by that metric :(