To think that wages have gone down A LOT in the past 20 years or so

[Poetrypatty]

I'm looking at some roles where the amount offered is probably what would have been offered for that job, or possibly even less, than what you'd have got paid in about 1999. And that's often for graduates where you wouldn't have needed a degree back then and you do now. That's not even taking into account inflation or house prices.

I'm talking started and mid level office roles in particular rather than NMW jobs. I do think at the higher end wages have gone up, managers etc. For those who are old enough to remember, AIBU?

[moregarlic]

This is a depressing read, though it does make me feel less alone. Rates are worse in my industry than they were in the 90s.

[PreparationPreparationPrep]

I feel it more for the younger generation- those who were in average paying jobs 20/30 years ago had a bit more money to spend/ save etc. It seems that now a days the younger generation unless you are the lucky few in an IT or similar career with high earning power it is a slow slog rents and cost of living is high.

[flowersmakeitbetter]

It's very depressing.

How will it change though?

I seriously hanker back to my youth when jobs were clearly advertised with salaries. There a very clear pecking order and those people without experience started at the bottom and actually received training for the job. It was actually possible to work your way up and get promoted/earn more money. Life was much more secure. It was possible to do a relatively normal job and buy a house.

I really frown when people say that the EU has given us more robust employment laws as I think we are much worse off than we were before them.

[simkin38]

I just tell younger people to only do IT/ computing as a career basically.
All the highly paid jobs are now in IT
Loads of diff versions on job specs - eg project manager, data, infrastructure, data governance, analytics
But all needs basic programming and interest.
Anyone could do the jobs - just get some IT qualifications and some basic programming and you'll be snapped up starting on £30k in London, £50k within 2-3y in London

Only way to be able to afford to live independently in your 20s now

All the people I know who did computer science or it at uni in early 2000s now earn £120-150k, most have IQ just above normal.

[SpeckledlyHen]

@SilverDragonfly1

They have in real terms, but also things like proper sick pay are far less common. Even in junior jobs/ small companies it was understood that after a qualifying period you'd get full sick pay. Now it seems acceptable for people to get SSP even when they are in senior positions in large companies (in fact, I think small companies are the worst- the only person I knew who got SSP 20 years ago worked for Boots!)

This I have noticed a lot. To be honest I turned down a job recently because of no benefits and SSP. I was quite shocked. My job pays about £60k per annum with benefits (medical insurance, sick pay, pension, 25 days holiday etc) and I am noticing more and more that companies are starting to cut back on the benefits which used to be the norm.

[WeRTheOnesWeHaveBeenWaitingFor]

Often the exceptions of some roles have gone up too. Take nursing, the pay has dropped significantly compared to cost of living but they are often expected to do jobs that would only have been done by doctors previously.

[LampLighter414]

Yep I was at a Big 4 accountancy and through online forums it became apparent that when I joined in 2014 the graduate salary, first few grade bands and manager/senior manager bands hadn't changed since at least 2007, they got adjusted in 2016 by about 3%, don't think they have changed since (I have since left but know people still working there)

So in real terms, accounting for inflation, significant decline in wages at all levels there for what is considered a true 'profession' and competitive/desirable grad scheme and career path.

Partners of the firms however have historically seen their average pay/profit share grow and grow of course. I think last year was the big exception but suspect they will recover to pre-covid levels this year.

[CornishGem1975]

YANBU. My salary hasn't changed in well over 10 years.

[forinborin]

@dongke

When I left uni (mid 00s) 70/80k for a senior/management position was considered a good wage. Those roles pay the same now.

I'd assume that would also compare better to house prices?
I think a single borrower on 70-80k now would be able to afford a studio or a 1bed only in London.

[KittyBurrito]

In my field (Higher Ed), wages have dropped 20 per cent in real terms over past few years (union figures). Now our pensions are under threat too. It's very depressing. I got 4 degrees for this?

[PinkCricket]

The house price issue is key I think.

I bought soon after uni in 2001 for 105 . We had a combined salary of 41 but it was 3x income + 1 then. As I said before that house is worth 450 and our household income is now less 🤦🏼‍♀️. As I didn't keep that house we are in a tiny ex council in a different area. People on 30k can't easily buy now.

[Cadburyschoco]

Totally agree with this, and unfortunately I think a lot of roles will have pay cuts soon to account for all the ‘travel costs’ people are saving by working remotely.
It’s all so depressing - low wages, sky high house prices / childcare, bills going up and tax increases on the horizon. I know it’s not their fault but I find it hard not to feel resentful of my parents generation who walked into any career they wanted, got pay rises every year, could afford a mortgage on one pay cheque…I just feel like our generation just don’t stand a chance.

[Poetrypatty]

It is depressing as pp have said. Internships as well, so that people- often graduates- have to work for free or very low pay. These used to be starter jobs. There did used to be a clear path with wage progression and decent benefits. So much needs to change, I'd start with this if I could be in charge:

No more unpaid internships
Working hours 35 p/wk max then overtime must be paid
End to zero hours contracts
No fixed term contracts without proper justification
Full sick pay
Subsidised travel costs or loan for season ticket
Employee to decide if they want an unpaid lunch break or to work through

[Poetrypatty]

unfortunately I think a lot of roles will have pay cuts soon to account for all the ‘travel costs’ people are saving by working remotely

I bet they will And it means employees are paying out for heating and electricity costs rather than the employer having to provide this. Heating a house or flat all day is going to become very costly.

[Moraxella]

Junior doctor starting salary 2001: £26,000. This year it’s £28,000.

[KittyBurrito]

Are there any economists on here? I'm curious: is this just a UK problem? How do wages here compare with elsewhere?

[NotMyCat]

Sort of glad to see this. I read a post on here about wages matching your age - there is nothing around me for 37k unless you have about a decade of experience or specific qualifications
I earn minimum wage for a 40hr week but commission brings it up to 26k. I have a decade of customer service experience and a degree but nothing is available that pays more

[RandomLondoner]

@CasparBloomberg

Agree with tax credits being a cause.

Government intervention on things like that just subsidises low wages. Just as subsidising buyer incentives for first time buyers increases house prices for the whole market. It’s like they don’t understand basic economics or something…

Can you explain why tax credits cause wages to be lower?

I think the benefits system as a whole should cause wages to be higher, by reducing the incentive to work. (I can see no legitimate reason to only consider the impact of tax credits, rather than looking at the benefits system as a whole.)

If you're saying wages are lower because tax credits encourages people who would otherwise be on out-of-work benefits to compete for jobs, that is a very, very unreasonable argument. You cannot assume that tax-credits are an optional policy but that the rest of the benefits system is set in stone and should not have its impact factored in.

I've just googled and found a LSE paper that says that tax credits do lower the amount people will accept to enter the work force, but as these same people would presumably be on out-of-work benefits otherwise, that does not mean there's anything wrong with tax credits. The fact that there's any minimum amount people expect before they will take a job shows that effectively employers have to pay more than they would if there were no benefits system.

The benefits system causes employers to pay more than they otherwise would, tax credits merely reduces the size of their overpayment.

[DespairingHomeowner]

@NotMyCat

Sort of glad to see this. I read a post on here about wages matching your age - there is nothing around me for 37k unless you have about a decade of experience or specific qualifications
I earn minimum wage for a 40hr week but commission brings it up to 26k. I have a decade of customer service experience and a degree but nothing is available that pays more

Wages matching your age was guideline for me as a new grad … in 2000!!

[onlychildhamster]

House prices have gone up over 70% on average ( 9 other countries have experienced higher house price growth than us) but our wages have only grown 0.6% in the last 10 years.

[AlphabetAerobics]

I dropped out of uni in 99. Started on 18k and was on 24k within a year.

Now I see middle-management jobs in that area wanting the moon on a stick in London for 45k and it just makes me laugh. Not in a million!

It’s very fucked up - in the late 90s I was on more than £9/hr doing secretarial work in uni holidays in Croydon.

Oh and word to the wise - advertising the role as “minimum wage!!!1!!!11” is not a plus point.

[onlychildhamster]

But from my chart, its a global problem. the discrepancy between our wage growth and our house price growth is roughly the same as Japan (which has lower immigration than most Western countries)

[onlychildhamster]

@KittyBurrito

[Kfjsjdbd]

Yes totally agree. While I think wages have roughly risen with inflation, benefits like a good pension or sick pay (as someone said up thread) have been totally eroded. My last two companies have had SSP only. I think working life has got a lot lot harder.

[PinkCricket]

Gosh yes Alphabet. Im same age as you, 2 degrees and currently thinking "10£ an hour might not be too bad..." Its really hard.