To think that wages have gone down A LOT in the past 20 years or so

[Poetrypatty]

I'm looking at some roles where the amount offered is probably what would have been offered for that job, or possibly even less, than what you'd have got paid in about 1999. And that's often for graduates where you wouldn't have needed a degree back then and you do now. That's not even taking into account inflation or house prices.

I'm talking started and mid level office roles in particular rather than NMW jobs. I do think at the higher end wages have gone up, managers etc. For those who are old enough to remember, AIBU?

@AlphabetAerobics

I questioned this with my parents once as they had a friend-couple who lived in a v expensive house/land/etc.

My mother (who’d never worked but lived a similar lifestyle) told me that her friend worked VERY hard and deserved his house.

Her friend was an unqualified (ie, 3 o-levels and a typing certificate) part-time vet receptionist.

Meanwhile, I have a friend who is an ACTUAL vet has a council house and tax credit top-ups…

I guess she just didn’t work as hard.

That really upsets and angers me. Wtf is going on in society when a qualified vet is relying on tax credits to get by?

Surely something has got to give soon. We can't carry on like this. No matter how well qualified we get, no matter how hard we work, the majority of us can't progress.

Yes, IT jobs seem well paid (did someone mention that on this thread or was it a different one?) The problem is, we can't all work in IT. We need vets doctors, nurses, care assistants, teachers, teaching assistants, etc.

No idea how things would change.I've recently met a local mum with two preschoolers. She doesn't work and they live in a two bed house in a former council estate. Her husband is a hospital doctor. Now I don't think there's anything wrong with living in a council estate but 20 or even 30 years ago that hospital doctor would be living in a three bed place in the naice area nearby, not where they are living now. They moved from abroad i.e. had no family help and only one income but honestly its a big change, especially in London

@guwv

No idea how things would change.I've recently met a local mum with two preschoolers. She doesn't work and they live in a two bed house in a former council estate. Her husband is a hospital doctor. Now I don't think there's anything wrong with living in a council estate but 20 or even 30 years ago that hospital doctor would be living in a three bed place in the naice area nearby, not where they are living now. They moved from abroad i.e. had no family help and only one income but honestly its a big change, especially in London

It's really shocking isn't it? A doctor should be able to support a family of four on one wage and have a decent standard of living in a nice area. Especially a hospital doctor, they work all hours don't they? It comes to something when you can work your arse off all through school and college getting top grades, then spend years in medical school, then complete specialist training as a hospital doctor and your small family still end up living on a council estate. It just makes me think what's the point in trying?

My friend is also married to a g.p and lives in an ex council house. It's such a massive change from when I was child and doctors lived in large detached houses in the best areas.

That's very true. I remember one of the GPs in our village living in a huge very nice detached house. His wife didn't work.

That house would cost in excess of £1m today.

Isnt it, and once again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with living where they live. But twenty years ago, their kids would be going private (as my friends did) and they would be living in SW/W London and not 'up and coming areas'. It was the same with university academics

12 years ago I was working as a part time teaching assistant on 18k pro rata. I left that 11 years ago for a better paid job which involved fixed unsocial hours. Haven’t had a pay rise in years. Looked into TA again to find the same hours advertised as 12k pro rata.
To top it all off, I’ve had to lose my unsocial hours so am down £200 a month.

I have been stuck at my pay level for 4 years. No money to move me on in teaching. Cuts and more cuts. In addition to that there's been no pay rise for 10 years. In real terms i've lost 12k off my pay in 10 years. Teaching rurally I get no weighting and the wage is poor in comparison with other sectors.

Teaching is a terrible career choice now which is awful to say because teachers do an amazing and important job.

I trained as a teacher and qualified to teach adults. I went into it thinking teaching is a stable job. When I qualified, the only vacancies in my subject (which wasn't a narrow subject range at all) was casual hours work. I did that for a short while but had to give it up because I couldn't afford to live on 6 hours of work a week.

The pay for teaching assistants is beyond dismal. And they really take the mickey by advertising the wage for the full time job as pro-rata because it's term time only. As if people can realistically get another job to cover the one week off at half terms, 2 weeks off a Christmas and Easter, etc to fill the missing wage.

Yup I'm on casual work teaching adults . It sucks.

Where I worked, even the most experienced teachers who had been there years were only on part time contracts. They could only afford to carry on working there part time because they all had a spouse who worked full time in a better paid career.

I can't find any conclusive data, but I think salaries for my profession have more or less kept up with inflation in the last 15 years. The difference is that you're now generally expected to work at least 5 years in lower paid roles because the employment criteria are higher than they were before.

Gettingthere - it seems to be similar across adult ed. I love it but need to find better paying work. It does seem to be middle class "wives" or early retired that can afford to do it. It is so wrong. Ive prepped half of today (unpaid) for a 2.5 hour session tomorrow...

@WholeClassKeptIn

Gettingthere - it seems to be similar across adult ed. I love it but need to find better paying work. It does seem to be middle class "wives" or early retired that can afford to do it. It is so wrong. Ive prepped half of today (unpaid) for a 2.5 hour session tomorrow...

Incidentally, in my department they were all men and it was their wives who had the well paid career but the same applies, middle class husbands who don't really need to work so just doing it more as a hobby and to keep busy.

I don't miss the unpaid lesson prep or the unpaid time spent marking work but I really enjoyed teaching in general, maybe one day I'll become one of the middle class wives and can get back into it.

I had the well-paid IT career - fucked it off when I was asked to indicate on my holiday sheets whether I’d only be available by phone - or “working as normal”.

Er…

It seems to me that any work requiring education is now a mug’s game - requiring debt for the training, experience to get the jobs, frequently unpaid, and then not well paid on top.

Getting there - that's really interesting! What did you go onto do instead (currently looking!) Im teaching such a wide variety of courses it's so interesting but ultimately a lot of work for so very little pay and I can't sustain it. It wouldn't even satisfy UC/tax credits or whoever. Crazy. So many quite well qualified people working for the odd £50 a session here or there and it just isn't possible to do as a real job.

In 1997 most of my friends got entry level office jobs in London with average salary of £15k, in 2000 I was on £26k felt like a lot. Had amazing benefits and we had a lot of company jollies too.
Similar job now would be about £30k. I don't know anyone on that wage who travels abroad, has expenses, lunches out etc. I was so so lucky! Early 2000s were great for a lot of those without responsibilities in good jobs. My salary rose to £50k by mid 2000s. This was good in my industry. Sadly I wasn't one of the ones who benefited from buying property.
Due to my childcare responsibilities over last 12 years I'm now on a job that's £25k pro rata (so about 14k). Have been unable to progress at all. Know plenty of women in same position. I look at jobs regularly and yes salaries are now in many cases lower. Especially regional jobs for national organisations. My role hasn't had a pay increase for new starters for 5 years and I've had a few hundred pounds in that period increase. No performance pay. Food and fuel has doubled. The only reason I'm a bit better off is that my dc no longer need wrap around childcare as that was crippling. But flip side was we wanted a bigger house to fit us. But bigger house cheaper than 2 in nursery...I spent 5 years working to cover childcare costs.

I’ve been teaching for 22 years so have suffered over a decade of pay freezes. I try not to dwell on it too much but two weeks ago I was 😳 when Boris announced new teachers would earn 30k. I can’t believe that next year’s NQT will be earning not much less than me. Why isn’t experience values anymore?

In 2001 I started an admin role on 15.5k a year. In 2004 I moved to another company for higher pay and closer to home. In 2011 I was made redundant, and went to another admin role for 15.5k. So the same money and similar role as I started on 7 years previous.

Reasons I can think of...

The general, worlwide trend of favouring shareholders over everything in private companies - including the long-term future of the company, let alone investing in training and productivity or paying decent wages...

Many years of tory governments and cuts to the public sector. That's where I work and in 15 years my wages (qualified technical job in a regulated industry) have never kept up with inflation.

The UK never really recovered from the 2008 recession.

The UK is an unequal society - the newest addition to this toxic pot is intergenerational inequality. Successive governments have been happy to stoke this fire and to set groups against each other for short-term gain. In the meantime, margins become tighter, standards are lower, conditions are poorer and job perks are cut.

People are understandably frustrated. Brexit was one the pressure valves for this frustration but IMO it's only moving things in the same direction, i.e. worse for the vast majority.

I would love to know what the solution is. I have family living in EU countries and their standard of living, public services and disposable incomes have gone up in the last 20 years - so it can be done.

This is the case in my job. Also public sector roles in my area now pay a lot more with a lot more benefits than the private sector which didn't used to be the case. It's a shame and very difficult to live. I'd like to buy a house but every year my salary is worth less, I haven't had a payrise in 3 years and I don't even get sick pay outside of statutory!

@WholeClassKeptIn

Getting there - that's really interesting! What did you go onto do instead (currently looking!) Im teaching such a wide variety of courses it's so interesting but ultimately a lot of work for so very little pay and I can't sustain it. It wouldn't even satisfy UC/tax credits or whoever. Crazy. So many quite well qualified people working for the odd £50 a session here or there and it just isn't possible to do as a real job.

I got a full time job working for a charity on an unrelated role. I started as a trainee and worked my way up over the past 3-4 years. Permanent contract, 35 hours per week right from the start. I'm still only on 24k now. After tax, NI, student loan deduction, childcare, and travel costs, I worked out that I'm only actually around £10 per week better off than I would be not working and claiming benefits.

It's sad that I couldn't stay in teaching. I'm really disappointed. I worked so hard to get my degree, my teaching qualification, and the voluntary teaching placement. I really thought that teaching would be a solid career choice and would create a brighter future. I knew I wouldn't be rich but I thought I'd be able to get a stable job and maybe afford a holiday each year.

I am constantly boggled by the UK wages I read about on here, and I am very glad I left a long time ago! My first proper job was graduate trainee accountant, I started on 13660 UKP in 1991, and within four years as I qualified I was on over 25k (can't remember exactly). I left London (and the UK) in 2003 and I was on around 37k. So seeing some of the figures on here just blows me away, especially considering house prices.

As a contrast, here in Western Australia, two sets of friends have just built lovely 4 bedroomed houses, a short drive to the beach. One couple is a hairdresser and a decorator the other a butcher and an admin clerk. Each have two cars and a very comfortable life. All my friends teenage kids are working in the usual jobs, fast food, supermarkets etc. My 20 year old son's basic wage is $21 an hour, with more for evening and weekends, he gets over $30 an hour for working Sundays, and over $40 for public holidays. A friend of his works full time as a delivery driver, he earns $70k pa, I told him that in other countries this is piece work that pays badly, he couldn't believe it when he googled!

I have no idea really why there is such a massive disparity between the two countries. I understand the economic theory that high wages lead to high prices, and yes, a lot of things do appear to be more expensive than in the UK, especially if you are here on holiday spending your UK wages, and making the conversion in your head when you spend. But they are comparatively cheaper if you are on an Aussie wage. I am not trying to turn this into a n Oz is better thread as I know I would get crucified but I really think something has gone badly wrong in the UK, whether it is the Tories, or Brexit, or what else, who knows?

DH's profession has been hit hard over the last 10-20 years. Each year they get paid less and their fees increase.

MP's however earn a shit ton more than they used to.