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Original poster

Kids attitude - what punishment?

43 replies

ThreeGoingCrazy · 13/10/2021 16:53

School have had words today about DSs attitude. Distracted in class (finds it hard so switches off) so told to concentrate, pulled a face (grumpy unhappy face not like sticking his tongue out etc) and then told again and has slammed his pencil /said "fine" or similar.

From his perspective, doesn't like it cos its hard, switches off, gets upset at being made to do it. From their perspective, he's bright enough, he's daydreaming, he's being rude.

But I'm struggling because we have similar issues at home and a struggle how to punish him for "insolence". Obv he's told not to do it and to apologise, similar to school, but it hasn't stopped him.

I. Worried school will just label him as naughty and he'll struggle to get and keep a job when he's older if he can't concentrate and be more polite.

When he's not being distracted from daydreaming or his imaginery / made up games or being asked to do literacy / tables he's lovely

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KitchenKrisis · 13/10/2021 17:03

He finds school hard, he's bored and disengaged and you and the school want to punish him. Sad

How old is he?

Why isn't he engaging?

negomi90 · 13/10/2021 17:04

This isn't a punish thing.
This is a work with him thing. What helps him concentrate, what makes it harder. Reward the good and start off with small easily achievable goals (ie concentrate on x specific thing for 5 mins without complaining) and then move on in small chunks with achievable measurable outcomes.
Work on strategies for remembering to use a nice voice when frustrated. Give him a script and an incentive to do so.
Make sure he's actually able to do what's being asked of him. If he's little, and a bit less mature then maybe he actually can't do what other's his age can in terms of behaviour.
Don't sweat the small stuff. If he makes a face, but then does what he's told, then praise the action of doing what's told/concentration. Ignore the face/tone, if the words/actions are the desired ones.

Keep a hard line for swearing/violence/unsafe behaviour.

Punishing this, risks self confidence issues and a downward spiral into self labelling as naughty/school bad. Especially punishing low level behaviour at school, when home needs to be a safe space where he can relax and let of steam. Work positively at home for skills at school, such as homework or listening.

Hellocatshome · 13/10/2021 17:06

How old is he? If he's finding it hard he needs to ask for help not just start daydreaming/switching off. I had lots of calls from one particular teacher about my child "attitude" which was strange because no one else had ever commented on it. Turned out he wasn't asking her for help as had heard her telling a boy to stop asking stupid questions. Once he realised he could ask for help his "attitude" was magically resolved.

Brollywasntneededafterall · 13/10/2021 17:14

My ds is currently awaiting forms filled for adhd.... Slipped the net until 12 it seems. Took him out of year 7 due to school attitude being more lazy and disorganised than ds's...

AlexaShutUp · 13/10/2021 17:19

I agree that punishment is not the solution here. Talk to him. Really listen. Try to understand why he's behaving like this. Then respond accordingly.

esloquehay · 13/10/2021 18:13

Why the desire to punish in the first instance? And, why contemplate taking him to task for things that happen at school? Home should be a safe space.
How old is he?
Connect rather than correct?

WorraLiberty · 13/10/2021 18:14

The age is always relevant

CecilyP · 13/10/2021 18:23

I. Worried school will just label him as naughty and he'll struggle to get and keep a job when he's older if he can't concentrate and be more polite.

Depend if he’s 6 or 16 really; some vital information is missing!

Itsanothernamechange · 13/10/2021 18:27

Sound like my nine year old, and me as a teenager.
9yo currently under assessment for adhd.
Me diagnosed as an adult

Pumperthepumper · 13/10/2021 18:28

I don’t think punishment ever works, it leads to resentment and it masks the underlying problem.

Original poster
ThreeGoingCrazy · 13/10/2021 18:41

See whenever I post on here I'm told the problem is I'm a bad parent because I'm not punishing for having a bad attitude or speaking rudely to staff. That I should be taking away screens or grounding (a 6 yo??) or being stricter. That he's like this because I'm not doing enough to punish the negative stuff

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Pumperthepumper · 13/10/2021 18:45

@ThreeGoingCrazy

See whenever I post on here I'm told the problem is I'm a bad parent because I'm not punishing for having a bad attitude or speaking rudely to staff. That I should be taking away screens or grounding (a 6 yo??) or being stricter. That he's like this because I'm not doing enough to punish the negative stuff
It’s hard to give you advice because there’s not much to go on here - although as I said, I don’t like punishments.

What’s he like at home? Any ideas about why he’s not enjoying school?

Original poster
ThreeGoingCrazy · 13/10/2021 18:47

@Hellocatshome

How old is he? If he's finding it hard he needs to ask for help not just start daydreaming/switching off. I had lots of calls from one particular teacher about my child "attitude" which was strange because no one else had ever commented on it. Turned out he wasn't asking her for help as had heard her telling a boy to stop asking stupid questions. Once he realised he could ask for help his "attitude" was magically resolved.
We've repeatedly told him he needs to tell the teacher if he's struggling or upset by someone's behaviour etc. He says he forgets to do so. I tell him the teacher can help, he needs to ferment to tell her, he says he'll try, then he says he didn't because he forgot.

I've got one boy moved tables because of the conflict because he finally told me but it took his friend to tell me this boy is now utilising storytime to wind him up (tomorrows chat with school!)

I don't know how else to ask him to tell. School know he's not good at telling and are meant to be checking in with him but obv if one teacher is teaching 30 6/7 yos their 5 times tables, it gets missed

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Danikm151 · 13/10/2021 18:48

I think this is a case of a too much being asked of a 6 year old at school! They missed a hell of a lot last year so schools are scrambling to play catch up.
If he finds it hard, tell him to use his words instead of his face and then he can get help.

Original poster
ThreeGoingCrazy · 13/10/2021 18:49

@AlexaShutUp

I agree that punishment is not the solution here. Talk to him. Really listen. Try to understand why he's behaving like this. Then respond accordingly.
He told me it's because its hard.

But of course it's hard because he won't engage. And then the others get it and he doesn't. It's hard to know how much of struggling to get it is poor focus vs actual ability

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Fallagain · 13/10/2021 18:50

@ThreeGoingCrazy

See whenever I post on here I'm told the problem is I'm a bad parent because I'm not punishing for having a bad attitude or speaking rudely to staff. That I should be taking away screens or grounding (a 6 yo??) or being stricter. That he's like this because I'm not doing enough to punish the negative stuff
Your always going to get different responses because rooms have different options.

At 6 you need to talk to him about how you are disappointed and how you want the teacher to be able to tell you positive things about him. Catch him being good and praise him. As for the distraction is he getting enough sleep, nutritious food and enough exercise? No judgment sometimes it’s hard to keep them of the healthier side of life but it’s important.

VaguelyInteresting · 13/10/2021 18:52

He’s 6! He missed almost half of last year at school!

I wouldn’t be punishing him. I’d be looking for a new school.

Pumperthepumper · 13/10/2021 18:54

@VaguelyInteresting

He’s 6! He missed almost half of last year at school!

I wouldn’t be punishing him. I’d be looking for a new school.

Yes, I agree with this. He’s too little to be managing how he’s perceived by adults. What are the school saying?
CSIblonde · 13/10/2021 18:56

As an ex teacher, his class teacher should know what each child struggles with , why - & how to address it. So if comprehension of initial instructions is the issue you go over & repeat , re explain & reinforce . If it's concentration, you prompt them to refocus every now & then. You need a chat with the teacher re the strategy that will work best for your child. If the attitude is only when he's frustrated then punishment isn't the way. Get him to say what the frustration is about then work on addressing it & also, his coping strategies re life's ups & downs ( it's ok to ask for help etc) is what I would do.

Original poster
ThreeGoingCrazy · 13/10/2021 18:56

@CecilyP

I. Worried school will just label him as naughty and he'll struggle to get and keep a job when he's older if he can't concentrate and be more polite.

Depend if he’s 6 or 16 really; some vital information is missing!

Sorry, 6 and me slightly catastrophisising
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Original poster
ThreeGoingCrazy · 13/10/2021 19:03

@Itsanothernamechange

Sound like my nine year old, and me as a teenager. 9yo currently under assessment for adhd. Me diagnosed as an adult
It's been suggested we have his tested fro neurodevelopmental stuff, someone wrote to my community paed and I'm fully supportive. School looked baffled. And this is the SENCO who knows he didn't talk until really late, had some social issues etc so she does know him. It just makes me confused
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HereBeFuckery · 13/10/2021 19:03

If he's struggling to concentrate and focus, practice that with him at home.

Be explicit that concentration is a skill to be learned, not an innate quality.

Reward very short/simple instances of concentration - listening nicely to a page of a story book (check he was listening by asking a question about what happened).

Find something he likes and does focus on, watch him focus and then ask him how he did that, how he felt while concentrating, and whether he thinks that was the way to practice that skill (even if it's watching TV, or playing a game).

You're asking him to be conscious of what focusing feels like. That's a huge skill for him to learn and it will take time, but it will pay dividends (knackered secondary teacher with hundreds of KS3 pupils who cannot maintain focus for more than two-three mins at a time.)

DO NOT PUNISH for lack of concentration. It's something to work on, not a behavioural issue. Reward and praise it as much as possible, narrate when you have to focus, so he gets used to seeing it in real life.

Caligraph · 13/10/2021 19:10

I think telling a six year old off for looking stressed or unhappy is ridiculous. The school is escalating a minor issue and piling pressure on. There's also a whole range of conditions which, even if otherwise not relevant, can make reading a child's expression difficult, ESPECIALLY if they are switching focus / trying to concentrate. People frown, squint in concentration. You don't hear of people laughing / smiling in concentration, do you?

I have a minor epileptic condition, and my eyes flicker up and to the left when I switch focus. It's normal to me because other family members do likewise. Being pounced on for it as - to be fair - few teachers and only a couple of employers have done - is immensely stressful. ADHD, autism, any neurodiversity or neurological issues - or just anxiety - can have similar effects.

I'd keep a close eye on the school. They don't sound interested in your child's comfort and security at all. They're going the right way to make his school life a misery.

ForPingsSake · 13/10/2021 19:21

It's been suggested we have his tested fro neurodevelopmental stuff, someone wrote to my community paed and I'm fully supportive. School looked baffled. And this is the SENCO who knows he didn't talk until really late, had some social issues etc so she does know him. It just makes me confused

Please do push for that to happen. If he does have SEN and/or ND issues then the approach and level of support needed would be different. SENCOs are not necessarily experts in these things, they are mostly there to administrate. They certainly don't have the expertise to diagnose (or not) though more experienced ones may have a good idea about it. The one at my daughter's school refused repeatedly to have her referred for assessment. When she finally was referred she was diagnosed with ASD and I got a big apology for how long and difficult it had been to get there!

Original poster
ThreeGoingCrazy · 13/10/2021 19:21

@negomi90 I read and I'm ingesting, thank you

At 6 you need to talk to him about how you are disappointed and how you want the teacher to be able to tell you positive things about him. Catch him being good and praise him he hates praise. School always tell me when he's done good writing for example as he hates literacy.
She came out and told Nan yesterday he did really well - he just countered it was boring. He gets lots of praise but it's like it doesn't sink in and that also makes me wonder what I've done to fail him for him to not like praise.

As for the distraction is he getting enough sleep, nutritious food and enough exercise? No judgment sometimes it’s hard to keep them of the healthier side of life but it’s important sleep, in theory 10 hours. He won't go to sleep any earlier, and sometimes it's an hour later. Occasionally he sleeps later and I give him as much time as I can but he's usually in my room for 6. Food is a whole different battlefield.

@CSIblonde it's his attitude when he's told to focus that's the issue but more surly sulky and a bit slammy than yelling etc.

We're trying to get help, they're focusing on my parenting through NVR so it's more about how I act than him iyswim

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