To think universities should allow “pro-life” groups?

[Mellowfruitfulnessy]

There’s been a few incidents in the news of universities saying that “pro life” groups should be banned because they make women in campus feel “unsafe”.

There was a protest in Exeter today and there’s been similar rumblings elsewhere.

This seems odd to me: it’s fairly standard teaching in Catholicism and the students in the group largely seem to be Christian / non-UK students. Unis are saying these groups are not “inclusive” but if mainstream religious thinking isn’t allowed, isn’t this excluding free speech? Is it really making women feel “unsafe”?

AIBU to say that pro life groups should be allowed on campuses as part of free speech/thinking/religious freedom?

@GrinchTastic

Young women, and young men for that matter, don’t need to “feel safe” at university.

^^This. It’s not a crèche. The rhetoric around “feeling safe” is ridiculous. No-one is suggesting here that harassment and intimidation or physical threat is okay. But that isn’t what the OP asked.

A stall at a university or hearing an opinion you don’t like or seeing material you disagree with (or an opinion that is against an experience you’ve had or a choice you have made), is not being “unsafe”, and it’s frankly infantilising to suggest it is.

I dislike pro-life stuff as much as anyone and will always argue against it, along with a lot of other opinions and movements that I disagree with - but would still never suggest be banned. That way is totalitarianism.

Would you say the same for other religious fundamentalists or radicals?

Unlikely

Of course I would , as long as they are not breaking the law. Who am I to decide what religious views other people can hold ?

I’m genuinely quite shocked to read how many MNers are pro censorship and anti free speech. How can you all be arguing for freedom of speech for yourself but not for others ?

Freedom of speech and religion mean nothing if it’s only for the people or belief systems that you personally like or approve of . There’s always someone who will disagree with you, so does that mean that your rights should be taken away?

I can’t decide if these posters are extremely right wing / totalitarian or just rather hard of thinking.

Hells teeth BurntO, that is despicable.

@IM0GEN

Of course they should be allowed - we have freedom of speech in this country. It’s appalling that some people are trying to censor views that differ from their own.

Universities are private businesses, they have no obligation to entertain these people.

Not sure why they are being defended

Their views AREN'T being defended.

Their right to express those views is.

Everyone has a right to express their views.
Pro life is included in that. They:ll get shot down in flames, especially on campus.

I am more concerned about pRoLiferd hanging about clinics and harassing women going in for a procedure.

@BurntO

This is from the group’s “president”

Not sure why they are being defended

Freedom of expression.

[quote VeniVidiWeeWee]@sleeplessem

Of course it would apply to those groups, providing they obey actual laws, e.g. inciting violence, etc.[/quote]
So you’re telling me the likes of Anjem chowdary should be welcomed across Uni campuses under the guise of freedom of speech. Utter tosh. No one thinks that because even though that little weasel never himself incited violence his ideology was toxic.

Same with pro lifers. The ones who pray outside abortion clinics with pictures of fetuses, tormenting the women who are going inside for reasons beyond their comprehension, those who care more about the life of a 6 week old fétus than a girl/ woman. Come on. That ideology shouldn’t be given oxygen in a place of education.

Universities are private businesses, they have no obligation to entertain these people.

No they're not

@GrinchTastic

Young women, and young men for that matter, don’t need to “feel safe” at university.

You don't think young people, many of whom will be away from home for the first time and making their own way in the world deserve to feel safe ?

What a strange opinion

@MurielSpriggs freedom of expression? Are groups advocating against the freedom of specific races cool then or is it just woman’s bodies were are good with being up for discussion?

[quote BurntO]@PearLime have you even read the reports regarding Exeter university?? How is your comment relevant to those?[/quote]
People should be able to express opinions, irrespective of whether they cause offence and irrespective of whether they are the popular belief at the time.

Yes I have read the report.

We need to maintain free speech because it is so so important that people can express beliefs. Even ones that you happen to not agree with.

Anjem Choudary would go against Prevent duty.

Universities aren’t private businesses - they’re exempt charities with clear statutory duties under the Charities Act 1993.

So @IM0GEN, there are certain schools of thought in certain religious communities that think that there should be capital punishment for homosexuality in a ‘just’ and divinely guided society. Should that be on campus? It’s freedom of speech though right?

@Titchy
Are groups advocating against the freedom of specific races cool then or is it just woman’s bodies were are good with being up for discussion?

In this context 'feeling safe' is not about physical safety, or supporting someone's MH. Safe now is synonymous with 'be nice' and 'don't let me hear things that might challenge my woke bubble'.

No I don’t, Thekormachameleon, if “feeling safe” means never having to be confronted with an opinion or belief they disagree with or find objectionable. Which is what it increasingly seems to mean these days.

@titchy

Universities are private businesses, they have no obligation to entertain these people.

No they're not

They’re largely registered charities in the UK. However, most HEIs now only have about 1/2 of their income directly from public money.

@SammyScrounge

Everyone has a right to express their views. Pro life is included in that. They:ll get shot down in flames, especially on campus.

I am more concerned about pRoLiferd hanging about clinics and harassing women going in for a procedure.

Indeed. But that’s not what’s being discussed here. The OP is about freedom to meet and talk on campus . The freedom to hold opinions and talk about them.

Are you going to ban Muslims and Jews from meeting up and talking or is it just Catholics?

And no I’m not Catholic but I fervently believe that they should have all the same human rights as atheists, humanists and everyone else.

No university should be refusing groups a platform to debate their legally held views. Very soon doing so will be illegal. Universities are places for robust debate, not echo chambers of the left wing.

Bullying is clearly not allowed, nor is anything that incites hatred and there is a duty under Prevent not to allow platforms to certain groups.

This.

If it's OK for a university to choose to no-platform an anti-abortionist then it's also OK for a university to no-platform a gender critical feminist.

Are groups advocating against the freedom of specific races cool then or is it just woman’s bodies were are good with being up for discussion?

Those groups would fall under Prevent duty, and the laws against incitement of racial hatred.

Taken from the 'Exeter Students for Life Instagram page, this is the view of their president.

Personally, as someone who has previously worked in an area providing abortions, I find being referred to as a "murderer", sinner and needing to repent, potentially threatening. If I was a student at Exeter uni then I would want this guy to STFU too.

Are groups advocating against the freedom of specific races cool then or is it just woman’s bodies were are good with being up for discussion?

Any legally held view should be up for discussion.

Do you not understand that if you remove the rights of some people to debate their views you contribute to the future removal of the rights of women to debate theirs.

@IM0GEN so meet under the banner of being a catholic not under the banner of being anti abortion