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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Low risk women/better birth facilities - unfair?

481 replies

Glassofshloer · 10/10/2021 16:45

When DD was a baby we attended a breastfeeding appointment at my local stand-alone birth centre and WOW! To say it was gorgeous is an understatement - double bed, huge whirlpool bath thing, fairy lights and bouncy balls in every room. Looked like the Ritz compared to the tiny, dimly lit room on the CDU where I gave birth. Just a bed and some wall stickers of flowers Confused

AIBU to think this is unfair on high risk/Consultant led women? And that we all deserve equal facilities, high risk or not? Fully prepared to be told IABU!

OP posts:
MintJulia · 11/10/2021 08:35

I don't think anyone is saying all these things wouldn't be nice but

a) it makes rooms harder to clean
b) when it comes down to it, frills are not what will give you a safe delivery
c) there are much higher priorities that need attention first

(Apart from tea and toast which everyone should be offered post-delivery.)

I was advised to take snacks & water, my music, and books with me. I took some for DP too although he could go to the hospital cafe whenever he wanted.

Original poster
Glassofshloer · 11/10/2021 08:48

@MintJulia

a) if it makes rooms harder to clean why have nice facilities even in an MLU?
b) can’t we have both? Going by most of the stories on here, it’s not like the funding is going on better staffing levels instead…
c) like what?

How long were you in hospital?

OP posts:
8dpwoah · 11/10/2021 08:54

I also think the new draft guidelines about more and earlier prophylactic inductions for various demographics (age, BAME, BMI off top of my head but don't quote me as I can't find the reference just yet) might have a bearing on MLUs being used even less...

That said it must have been handy to have a self-contained space for our hospital to put covid positive mums at the time so perhaps it'll end up being more that kind of facility in future. It certainly hasn't had any of its intended customers in it for 18 months now anyway.

DeepaBeesKit · 11/10/2021 08:58

If you are high risk then
A) you can't have a water birth because the risk to you and baby is too high. So no need for birthing pools
B) they generally won't let you be going on the floor/in loads of positions because they will want to be monitoring you constantly.

It's a clinical setting because it needs to be to prioritise the safety of the mum & baby.

RobinPenguins · 11/10/2021 08:58

This stuff about “fairy lights” is really fucking sneering and dismissive. I didn’t want fucking fairy lights. It’s not about decor. But a room my partner could stay in so he could help care for me and the baby until we were discharged would have been nice. Being able to go to the toilet without having to queue up behind someone’s 5 sodding visitors would have been nice. Being more than a curtain away from multiple complete strangers hours after giving birth, while still covered in my own blood, would have been nice. Access to a shower would have been really nice.

Original poster
Glassofshloer · 11/10/2021 09:00

@DeepaBeesKit

If you are high risk then A) you can't have a water birth because the risk to you and baby is too high. So no need for birthing pools B) they generally won't let you be going on the floor/in loads of positions because they will want to be monitoring you constantly.

It's a clinical setting because it needs to be to prioritise the safety of the mum & baby.

A) not true. Most CDUs have a pool room - but usually only one. Most MLU rooms have them.

B) you can be monitored wirelessly.

OP posts:
Original poster
Glassofshloer · 11/10/2021 09:05

This stuff about “fairy lights” is really fucking sneering and dismissive

Yep, note they never use ‘birth pool’ or ‘private room’ as a substitute, it always comes back to the fairy lights doesn’t it!

OP posts:
DeepaBeesKit · 11/10/2021 09:06

A) it doesnt change the fact that they don't have many of them because most high risk people simply won't have the option of a water birth.

B) can you on nhs? This was never an option at my births (both high risk). In a high risk delivery the priority is the health of baby and mum. It is more important than people having the dream birth plan they hoped for.

Have you ever had things go wrong during a delivery OP? I found that when this happened to me, you suddenly don't give a shit about you birthing pools or space to go on all fours. What you immediately care about is the presence of calm doctors, nurses and midwives moving smoothly into action, medical equipment needed on hand. All the extra space is in the operating theatres, where its needed to save lives.

Original poster
Glassofshloer · 11/10/2021 09:10

@DeepaBeesKit

A) it doesnt change the fact that they don't have many of them because most high risk people simply won't have the option of a water birth.

B) can you on nhs? This was never an option at my births (both high risk). In a high risk delivery the priority is the health of baby and mum. It is more important than people having the dream birth plan they hoped for.

Have you ever had things go wrong during a delivery OP? I found that when this happened to me, you suddenly don't give a shit about you birthing pools or space to go on all fours. What you immediately care about is the presence of calm doctors, nurses and midwives moving smoothly into action, medical equipment needed on hand. All the extra space is in the operating theatres, where its needed to save lives.

A) neither will most women in the MLU. By all accounts 70% of them don’t even stay in the room, let alone in the pool. You don’t need to give birth in the pool, it can be used for pain relief and relaxation in early labour. This could’ve been the case for me.

B) nobody says that to MLU mums. Can’t you have both?

C) not urgently no. But most women don’t, it isn’t a choice between a life saving surgeon OR a whirlpool bath is it? Again, this is never said to MLU mums.

OP posts:
Franca123 · 11/10/2021 09:11

I'm really not sure that a private room is as great as it seems. My friend was in a private room and she says she felt abandoned and ended up walking out before discharge. Also my baby got sepsis. The midwife picked up on this when my family and I had no idea. Just by seeing us fussing over some seemingly minor symptoms. How much longer would it have taken for this to have been spotted if we were in a private room? Just a thought. I really didn't mind being on the ward. Having said that, when my baby was in NICU and I was on the ward listening to the other babies cry...... that was hard. I certainly would have liked being moved to a different area at that point. I got myself discharged first thing in the morning to avoid another night like that.

Original poster
Glassofshloer · 11/10/2021 09:18

I just had a look at my local maternity stats. One baby was born in the MLU this month!!

One!!

Presumably the unit has 24/7 midwives?!

OP posts:
DeepaBeesKit · 11/10/2021 09:19

Do you realise it costs money op?

In the hospital there is x amount of space & money. It is prioritised based on medical outcomes. The the MLU the financial and space budget is less needed on the medical/clinical side, so it can be allocated differently. Also it's about outcomes - in the absence of medical complications, the birthing pool etc probably have a bigger impact on improving outcomes in an MLU, so they can be justified. It's a bit like vaccinating children for Covid - many health professionals don't think its justified because children are so low risk that the outcomes don't justify the cost, whereas that cost is justified for adults.

Original poster
Glassofshloer · 11/10/2021 09:20

Do you realise it costs money op?

No, thank you for this stunning revelation. Thread basically over now…

OP posts:
TheWayTheLightFalls · 11/10/2021 09:24

The other point I don’t see being made here, unless I missed it - crowded, chaotic wards -> stress on women in labour -> less likelihood of things progressing naturally -> higher risk of interventions and ultimately CS. I expect it’d be a lot cheaper to make wards more amenable than to staff the doctors, consultants, anaesthetists etc resulting. No I don’t have stats but I’ll happily go dig around for them once I’m off the sodding postnatal ward! Grin

DeepaBeesKit · 11/10/2021 09:25

Glassofschloer many MLUs close for periods of the year for the simple reason that they arent used enough and there isnt enough budget to staff an empty/low use unit

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 11/10/2021 09:26

I think that maternity services for all women need so much improvement it’s hard to know where to start!

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 11/10/2021 09:27

Letting mothers sleep and recover after the birth has to her number 1

Somuchgoo · 11/10/2021 09:48

Yes, bless them, Salisbury. And they were fabulous. No frills but the care was superb. I had FOUR days being nursed back to my feet. It was wonderful.

Its a wonderful maternity unit :-)

The highlight for me was the Italian midwife on postnatal who whipped up some spaghetti Bolognese the night before, and would heat it up for the new mums arriving, so they could have a proper meal after giving birth.

They also where they can, let the mums stay as long as they want/need after birth. I know people who could have gone home the next day staying for 3 nights, to gain extra support with feeding, or because they had other children at home and wanted more rest etc.

They answer call buttons promptly, are decently staffed, and bring your food to your bed!

Its not perfect, there were things I could quibble about, but all the fundamentals, and some of the fluffy stuff was there. I hope it stays as good when the new centre opens.

Original poster
Glassofshloer · 11/10/2021 10:16

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

I think that maternity services for all women need so much improvement it’s hard to know where to start!
Yes it definitely seems I’ve opened a can of worms here!
OP posts:
Franca123 · 11/10/2021 10:18

I think they should have a nursery for the babies so that women can rest. I genuinely thought they had one and was shocked to hear I had to look after my own baby immediately with no help.

Franca123 · 11/10/2021 10:20

I get it that lots of women want to do skin to skin and breastfeeding is important to them etc...... But feels like a convenient excuse for the hospital to remove the help women used to get in order to save money.

Hardbackwriter · 11/10/2021 10:27

I absolutely agree that postnatal is the part in most urgent need of complete overhaul, and I say that as someone who has never actually experienced it. There were some bad aspects to my births but I feel like I won the birth lottery because neither time did I have to go to postnatal ward - the first time I should have but it was full (!) so I just stayed in the labour ward room I'd given birth in for 14 hours and then went home. Every other woman I know who gave birth in that hospital described that postnatal ward as the seventh circle of hell so I felt so lucky. Which is actually quite a damning indictment of the system because DS1 and I spent our first night in a room literally splattered with my blood, with no bed for me (it was one of those sort of hard ones you get on for an examination, with no sheets - they did find me a pillow) and him on the resus unit because they'd also run out of cots and I was still in no doubt that I'd been lucky to get something so much better than what the hospital would usually offer...

YourFinestPantaloons · 11/10/2021 10:29

I completely agree with you OP.

Maternity care in this country is fucking shocking, to the point where I can't believe nothing more is being done about it. The conditions some women have to give birth in are barbaric. But if you win the health/postcode lottery you might get a nice bed and fairy lights! WTF is that about??

YourFinestPantaloons · 11/10/2021 10:30

@Franca123

I think they should have a nursery for the babies so that women can rest. I genuinely thought they had one and was shocked to hear I had to look after my own baby immediately with no help.
They did when my mum had us! She stayed for a week each time and the nurses would take the baby to the nursery so she could rest.

Says it all when maternity care was more woman-centred 40 years ago than it is now

Original poster
Glassofshloer · 11/10/2021 10:32

Can somebody please tell me what the votes are up to? I can’t see them for some reason.

OP posts: