Low risk women/better birth facilities - unfair?

[Glassofshloer]

When DD was a baby we attended a breastfeeding appointment at my local stand-alone birth centre and WOW! To say it was gorgeous is an understatement - double bed, huge whirlpool bath thing, fairy lights and bouncy balls in every room. Looked like the Ritz compared to the tiny, dimly lit room on the CDU where I gave birth. Just a bed and some wall stickers of flowers

AIBU to think this is unfair on high risk/Consultant led women? And that we all deserve equal facilities, high risk or not? Fully prepared to be told IABU!

“You could give birth in the corridor with an amazing midwife who cares and looks after you amazingly and it would be a much better experience than the plush room.”

True, but do you understand the induction process that many women increasingly go through? They don’t get to 9cm at home then deliver in a couple of hours once they get to hospital. It’s an extremely long process in many cases - so environment does make a difference, especially if there’s literally no sign of baby coming and it feels like it’s being forced out of you

[quote WrapAroundYourDreams]Wow, you're lovely aren't you @Blossomtoes, basically calling anyone with a different opinion to you thick.

It isn't lazy to consider that just maybe, some of the issues surrounding women's poor maternity care are down to inherit sexism. You've given it some thought and analysis? Believe it or not, others have, and may have come to different conclusions. Did you even read this, that I posted earlier in the thread?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/04/as-long-as-sexism-lies-at-the-heart-of-childcare-babies-and-women-will-continue-to-die[/quote]
I didn’t call anyone anything.

Lack of funding which has to be spread more thinly, staff shortages, medicalisation of childbirth are all issues here. Yes, I think dismissing it as just sexism is lazy and unhelpful. Particularly since maternity services were considerably better at a time when society was much more sexist.

You said you 'thought it was an intelligent conversation'- don't deny your implication.

Did I say that sexism was the only reason? There are many reasons why maternity care is worse now than when I was born 33 years ago but I believe (and it really isn't a rare opinion) than sexism plays a part.

Particularly since maternity services were considerably better at a time when society was much more sexist.

Tbh- 'society'? Basically by 'society' we mean men don't we? Are men less sexist? I'm not sure about that. I don't think they can be so openly sexist in many situations. Have their views of women inherently changed? I don't think they honestly have. For some of our gains we are losing ground in others. It's a separate thread though.

I don’t think maternity services were better before. In the mid eighties a close female relative was left in a room on a drip pretty much on her own, birthed the baby tearing then sewn up with no local anaesthetic.

Another relative with a breach baby in the 50s was told by a doctor not to worry if she felt a leg dangling down. Had an episiotomy and resulting stitches without local anaesthetic and told that it wouldn’t hurt if it was done straight after birth. Baby wisked away before she held it.

Don’t think our older relatives speak about it as they don’t want to scare us. But ask them. That’s enough horror stories though.

By society, I mean society. If I meant men, I’d have said that. I entirely agree that women’s rights in some areas are being eroded right now. As you say, that’s another thread. And I was hoping for an intelligent discussion of the issues, not an airy dismissal of “sexism”. 🤷‍♀️

I honestly think the first thing to campaign on is adequate staffing levels. Not the rooms.
They either need adequate staffing so every mum and baby gets decent postnatal support. Or they need rooms with an extra bed so a support person (dad, gran, friend) can stay to help with the baby while mum recovers. The room would be cheaper!

I found it very unreasonable that they expected my husband to stay and look after me and the baby while I was incapacitated, but then expected him to sleep on a hard chair for two nights with no access to facilities.

The clinical guidelines the NHS produces states you should be offered pain relief in water for any birth.

Some units have pool facilities on labor ward as well as MLU - you can actually ask for your canula to be dressed with a waterproof cover so there is no excuse for not providing the facilities we KNOW will help many women have a good birth. Other than chronic underfunding obviously - but that is more a reason than a excuse tbh.

The fact that so many women have commented they don't care about the environment they just want a healthy baby makes me so sad its like we have been conditioned to be nothing more than incubators. Mothers matter, birth experiences matter and a better experience leads to long term positive outcomes for mother and baby.

You are incredibly rude @Blossomtoes. It's not an 'airy' dismissal at all- because I think the sexism and misogyny within the NHS- that I've experienced first hand- is not something to be dismissed 'airily'.

I'm not going to derail the thread any further- the only person dismissing anything on this thread is you. And yes- you clearly meant society and not men- you're a good example of internalised misogyny, if you want to dismiss outright the possibility that sexism is in part to blame for the poor healthcare women experience.

You are incredibly rude @Blossomtoes**

Am I? Because I disagree with you?. I’m sorry that’s not allowed in your world.

Sorry for the derailment @Glassofshloer.

Lol because you can't be polite when someone has a different opinion to you maybe 🤦‍♀️

It's an 'unintelligent conversation' if I don't agree, and an 'airy dismissal'.

I agree Hamtonn.

The expectation that husbands/relatives/friends pick up the slack on postnatal wards, while getting no sleep/food themselves, is shocking. Yet you’re treated like some kind of male rights activist if you point this out

It makes me really sad to think back to my postnatal experience. I really think the first few days of motherhood set the tone for going forwards, and looking back it feels like they put me through an endurance course of pain and exhaustion rather than a birth and recovery.

@HairsprayBabe

The clinical guidelines the NHS produces states you should be offered pain relief in water for any birth.

Some units have pool facilities on labor ward as well as MLU - you can actually ask for your canula to be dressed with a waterproof cover so there is no excuse for not providing the facilities we KNOW will help many women have a good birth. Other than chronic underfunding obviously - but that is more a reason than a excuse tbh.

The fact that so many women have commented they don't care about the environment they just want a healthy baby makes me so sad its like we have been conditioned to be nothing more than incubators. Mothers matter, birth experiences matter and a better experience leads to long term positive outcomes for mother and baby.

Is that really true about the cannula, Barbie??

So you can have some form of drip in, and still go in the pool?

If so I am genuinely excited by that and ready to insist upon a water birth next time!

The only time I’ve been in a hospital delivery unit was when I was delivering a dead baby (late miscarriega) and was in a tiny room, all I could hear was new baby cries and the thrum of other babies’ heartbeat monitorings through the walls. I have no idea what type of unit it was but it was a single bedroom size with a bathroom attached, it had a hospital bed and a chair and not much space for anything else. I didn’t go to a postnatal ward though, I left immediately after delivery and I haven’t been back there since, nor will I go. I can still hear the baby heartbeats whenever I think about it.

I walked out with two healthy babies and that’s all that matters. Get over yourself.

@DrDilligaf

I walked out with two healthy babies and that’s all that matters. Get over yourself.

Perhaps you should read the post above yours. How insensitive.

I’m so sorry pies, that must have been heartbreaking. I’m appalled they didn’t have proper facilities for you away from the main delivery ward

gbss.org.uk/info-support/group-b-strep-testing/what-does-my-test-result-mean/waterbirth/

Yes! This from the GBS charity explains about the dressing for IV antibiotics - no reason you can't apply the same logic to any other IV port

@Glassofschloer

Also this from AIMS www.aims.org.uk/journal/item/waterbirth-induction

I agree that you leave hospital in the worst possible state. It sets you up badly moving forward. Personally I bottle fed, so handed over the baby to my husband and mother in law and slept for a day to catch up. But that's not possible for lots of women. My friend in Canada stayed in a private room with lots of help and only went home when they were ready. My grandmother had something similar in the 40s here.

[quote HairsprayBabe]@Glassofschloer

Also this from AIMS www.aims.org.uk/journal/item/waterbirth-induction [/quote]

I never knew about this, I’m actually stunned - everything I read said any form of drip took a water birth off the table completely. Thank you so much for posting - plenty for me to think about while I get ready to ttc number 2!

Thanks glassofshloer

I genuinely have no idea if the baby already being known deceased before induction made me high or low risk that time but I was classed as high risk for all future pregnancies because of it. But I never did go back to a hospital maternity or labour ward (+2 dc on now and one further lost baby in the same circumstance as my first lost one)

I can understand your point about how high risk shrinks women’s options and that’s not fair. I think health professionals do a lot of expectation management in late pregnancy. But I do think that the baby loss families fall under that same umbrella - the high risk one from whom all options are removed. It’s not Ok that women in the most difficult of circumstances are the ones least supported. I totally agree with your OP.

Yanbu at all

I couldn’t care what the room looked like when I gave birth, what I did care about was spending hours on an uncomfortable dentist like chair and being scolded every time I moved by the midwife as I upset the wires. This was during covid where I wasn’t allowed anyone with me. To then find out if you weren’t high risk you got a lovely comfortable space and someone with you. I will never again be admitted and will opt for a c-section if I happen to get over this experience just so I never have to go through that again.

@DrDilligaf

I walked out with two healthy babies and that’s all that matters. Get over yourself.

Jeez. Read the room.

Life isn't fair. After my awful birth in a beautiful midwife lead unit, I'm heading straight to a clinical labour ward if I get pregnant again! (Drugs!!)

@Spyro1234

Life isn't fair. After my awful birth in a beautiful midwife lead unit, I'm heading straight to a clinical labour ward if I get pregnant again! (Drugs!!)

What happened, if I can ask?