Low risk women/better birth facilities - unfair?

[Glassofshloer]

When DD was a baby we attended a breastfeeding appointment at my local stand-alone birth centre and WOW! To say it was gorgeous is an understatement - double bed, huge whirlpool bath thing, fairy lights and bouncy balls in every room. Looked like the Ritz compared to the tiny, dimly lit room on the CDU where I gave birth. Just a bed and some wall stickers of flowers

AIBU to think this is unfair on high risk/Consultant led women? And that we all deserve equal facilities, high risk or not? Fully prepared to be told IABU!

@mummyh2016 I find it quite lacking in self awareness to read posts like yours, where you’re dismissing higher risk mums’ desires for better birth facilities as unimportant/unrealistic/too expensive having chosen an MLU and benefitted from those things yourself.

I don’t think you mean it unkindly but surely you see how it looks when you state you have chosen an MLU because it’s better/nicer but then dismiss those benefits for other people?

@CupcKes10

That is really not supported by the evidence, for FTM a MLU is statistically the safest place for her and her baby to be born. For STM home birth and MLU are statistically as safe as each other, so no you are not "dicing with death" if you choose an MLU

The hormones that facilitate physiological childbirth work best in dark, calm, quiet, relaxing spaces, MLUs help facilitate that.

Yeah high risk is shite and uncomfortable. On the other hand they saved my life, so...

• posted too soon

But there is no reason an L&D ward can't replicate the same atmosphere as an MLU which would lead to more women having better birth experiences.

I had my first in a beautiful birthing centre. The facilities were so lovely and it made it such a positive experience. I had my own room, bathroom and partner could stay as well. My 2nd was high risk so I was in the hospital. Facilities at birth were good but ward aftercare was awful. I didn’t even have a blanket on my bed. My baby was in intensive care and I was stuck on a ward with all mothers and their babies whilst I lay there in the cold crying! My partner was also not allowed to stay. It was terrible.

I get that comfort is good but it’s a nice to have….in my opinion when money is tight the only place it should be going is to making sure all women have immediate access to the right medical team….the safely of women and their babies needs to take priority but unfortunately that’s not the case anymore.

@YukoandHiro

Yeah high risk is shite and uncomfortable. On the other hand they saved my life, so...

They saved my life too. I simply want to be treated as mother and a human while they do it.

@HairsprayBabe statistics are great when doing financial planning and dealing with widgets, not so much when it comes to human life….but your statistics do help support the government when it comes to MLU and less women having immediate access to emergency care.

Taking away the mood lighting/double bed/birthing pool for those that want to and are able to labour on a birthing unit doesn't mean it will then be available for those that are having to give birth on a consultant led unit. It will just mean the birthing units get used less than what they are and more pressure will be put on the consultant led unit.

🤦🏼‍♀️

NOBODY IS SUGGESTING WE DISMANTLE MLU’s AND MOVE THEIR EQUIPMENT TO CDUs

We are talking about improving CDU to make it as nice as MLUs

You think other people’s taxes should be spent on a luxurious MLU for you, but that if they dare to want the same standards for themselves they are unreasonable

I mean just think for a minute or two before posting…

@WrapAroundYourDreams

So because it was better at one time, it means that sexism isn't one of the causes for why maternity care is poor today?

What reasons would you give for an area of medicine that solely affects women being so terribly underfunded, if not sexism?

I thought those articles summarised a lot of the issues very succinctly.

That argument only works if you believe sexism has got worse in the last 40-50 years. Do you think that?

Gosh, reading and analytical skills aren’t the strong suite of some of the posters on here are they?!

‘I want taxes to pay for MY lovely birth experience in an MLU, but other women can’t have the same because the NHS is too skint’ 🤦🏼‍♀️ 🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️

@CupcKes10 the MLU I gave birth on was immediately next to L&D ward as are the majority of MLUs. If I needed immediate emergency care there would have been no delay in getting it.

Feeling comfortable and safe in childbirth leads to better outcomes and saves money longterm, we should be pushing for more facilities like mood lighting for all women not just low risk ones, because the benefits of a good birth experience are huge, and long term reduce costs for the NHS.

YANBU - I was low risk til 40 weeks and everything changed overnight and I became high risk. Had visited the birthing centre and hoped to birth there but it wasn’t to be.

Baby turned back to back due to being confined (during pandemic) in hospital night before induction that I was persuaded to have (instead of an elective cesarian) with the extreme outside hope of having access to hospital birthing centre or a pool on the delivery suite dangled like a carrot by a doctor. Had to wait several hours in established labour for an epidural and wasn’t made aware that I could’ve had intermittent monitoring rather than continuous so I could’ve got off the bed more easily. Not sure why I couldn’t use a pool in the birthing centre upstairs for pain relief in the mean time while the anaesthetist was busy as consultant said after that I could’ve asked for intermittent monitoring. I might have relaxed and baby might have turned in the water and I wouldn’t have had to have had the eventual c section due to being overwhelmed by the pain of a back to back baby for 20 hours.

At the debrief I found out there were around 4 hours when the monitors weren’t recording anyway.

I was brave and went back to the birthing centre to return the breast pump I hired a few months later but it was very difficult seeing how nice and calm and quite it was

That argument only works if you believe sexism has got worse in the last 40-50 years. Do you think that?

You haven't answered my question- what do you think the reasons are for maternity care being so woefully underfunded? What do you think about women's pain not being taking as seriously as men's?

I chose to have two ELCS's and I wanted general anaesthetics for them. Which I had to argue for. My brother, when having an op on his little finger, was immediately offered the choice of a local or GA. interesting, that. Whilst in some ways a GA may have been more for me, I'm sure they would have been for him as well, compared to a local anaesthetic. For an operation on his little finger. Interesting, that.

And why does the argument only work if sexism has got worse in the past 40-50 years? You said yourself that maternity care used to be better funded- so it's interesting isn't it, that when under pressure, it's a service solely for women that really suffers.

Do I think sexism has got worse over the past 40-50 years? I'm 33, I can't answer that question entirely through lived experiences. I'm aware that I'm less likely to be discriminated at work as my mother was. That I was able to get a mortgage in my own name when women couldn't do only 40-50 years before me, as well as many other historical examples. I also think that whilst certain things appear to have improved at surface level, sexism still runs deep. Men's views of women haven't changed on the whole, it's just certain things are less socially acceptable than they were previously. And actually I do think that at the moment, women's rights are under greater threat again, and we are at risk of going backwards.

I definitely FEEL that the NHS is sexist. I can't of course proof that. But I have certainly very very rarely felt as dismissed and patronised as I did when pregnant and interacting with the NHS. I have experience with medical settings both private and NHS for non maternity related matters and I was treated as a fully functioning adult. My care ultimately was excellent and I got what I wanted for the birth. But we fought them hard to get it. I'm still annoyed that I had to take so many months off work for severe nausea whilst pregnant which went untreated. I lost an awful lot of salary and pension payments thanks to them not thinking I was important.

Sorry @Glassofshloer for the derail btw. I'm in agreement with you that all women should be able to give birth in more comfortable surroundings. I don't think MLUs would be anyone's ideal if they aren't attached to a normal delivery suite with obstetricians on hand. I think proper investment in maternity staff, improving room layouts and making them as comfortable as possible, with good postnatal care, should be the solution.

I paid to guarantee a private postnatal room when I had my DS- I don't think women should be treated as cash cows either and be charged the same as staying in a decent hotel would cost, just to ensure they aren't being disturbed or even caused distress by other peoples visitors etc. Think it cost £150 which would have been for two nights but I only stayed one.

@Franca123 I agree with you. I think there is evidence and research out there, I've been able to find quite a few articles on it, but I haven't got time to dig around loads atm! Here is a recent article about sexism in medicine:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/sexism-in-medicine-is-damaging-the-care-given-to-half-the-population-dr-patricia-moultrie-3366947%3famp

No worries Wrap - it’s all connected in a way and part of a broader discussion.

It isn’t about abolishing MLUs, it’s about bringing the standard of care/facilities in CDUs up to match them. And why shouldn’t we have that?

The cynic in me thinks some people enjoy the ‘exclusivity’ of an MLU experience and just don’t want other women to have it too…

I don't know @wraparoundyourdreams plenty of well informed women choose homebirth with the knowledge that they won't have immediate access to an obstetric doctor in an emergency, it's a risk based decision and you have to weigh up the pros and cons for yourself.

L&D rooms need to be more pleasant though, and it really wouldn't cost the world to make small changes that would make a difference

I agree, particularly with a comment earlier on this thread, can't remember if it was you @Glassofshloer or a pp that it must really feel like a kick in the teeth to women who may already be dealing with some quite worrying health concerns, to then have to use very clinical, sterile facilities, whilst knowing that if they were having a straightforward pregnancy they may be able to benefit from better surroundings. I can see how more comfortable surroundings could definitely help women relax in labour.

I've never been in labour- i was on the normal delivery suite and had c-sections in a brightly lit, sterile room, with loads of people around me, whilst I was knocked out! Tbh after I was just glad I had my c-sections. The room was fine, if very medical. But thinking about it, even the room I paid for on the ward wasn't that nice, very clinical. When I saw the infant feeding midwife, she took me to an available room which happened to be in the MLU. The rooms in there were definitely nicer, even than the room I paid for!

That's true actually @HairsprayBabe - I was just trying to work out the 'ideal' in my head and I thought maybe somewhere comfortable and homely BUT with obstetricians on hand immediately if needed would be perfect for most but I hadn't really thought about those who'd prefer homebirth. Id have been terrified of that myself but I understand why others feel differently. I do think that all women's choices and preferences need to be considered as much as possible.

Although for me I was terrified of anything that wasn't a c-section under GA... whole other thread.

Our midwife unit you don’t sleep in those fancy rooms. You have them while in labour, and a few hours after Giving birth before discharge. If you need to stay in your on a bog standard shared ward unless by some Miracle nobody else needs the room you’ve delivered at 4am kinda thing. My birth pool room again your not allowed to stay stay and it’s why I refused to go in to deliver unless I had a 2 hour max then around once I’d given birth unless something had gone wrong obviously but I most certainly wasn’t going to ward because the midwifes I had encountered on ward before where horrible.

A shared ward after my midwife led is what led me to having a homebirth so I agree they are shit but that’s not the room you deliver in the room you deliver in doesn’t need to look like a hotel brochure.

The after care yes needs improving but again it’s not a hotel, if you want hotel standards your going to have to pay.

So you used the lovely MLU pool room @Horst, paid for by taxes, but you think if higher risk mums want the same experience they should pay for it?

“ I do agree with you to an extent but I think it's probably to do with the fact that labour wards are designed "like hospital wards" whereas midwife led units are a bit "freer" in their design allowances?”

That’s literally the point of the post

I suppose that really is the key think @WrapAroundYourDreams all births are so different and so so personal that they should be equally as supported, MLU was great for me but some women feel safer at home, or in the Labor ward or choosing an elective CS.

No-one should have to fight for a relaxing MLU space or an elective section and maternal preference should be much much higher up the list of priorities.

Recovery should be in a calm quiet private space where you can bond and actually recover properly where you and your birth partner can rest with 24hr access to tea/coffee/toast.