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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think we should be able to pay with cash?

350 replies

PearLime · 08/10/2021 10:12

The government should enact a law making it illegal for retailers to accept card only.

It's a discriminatory practice, with elderly, disabled and low income people suffering the negative consequences.

AIBU?

OP posts:
muddyford · 08/10/2021 12:07

YANBU. Cash is called legal tender so it should be illegal to refuse it for payment in person.

playmelikeasymphony · 08/10/2021 12:10

@midsomermurderess wrong, if someone has a disability that means they need to use a cash it is 100% discrimination not to allow them to use it and would be covered by the Equality Act.

Shade17 · 08/10/2021 12:11

YANBU. Cash is called legal tender so it should be illegal to refuse it for payment in person.

You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about

AwaAnBileYerHeid · 08/10/2021 12:13

@SalsaLove

My dad is 87, with mild dementia and has no problem using a card. All you have to do is hold it in front of the machine. It’s easier than handling cash and there’s no possibility that the elderly or disabled will be ripped off since there’s no exchange of cash.
I'm glad to hear that your Dad hasn't yet lost that ability. Others have sadly lost the ability to do this.
MereDintofPandiculation · 08/10/2021 12:15

@user1497207191

I understand the problems with older people etc., but, credit/debit cards have been mainstream since the 1980s, i.e. 40 years ago. Someone who is 80 today was only 40 when cards became mainstream, so there's no real excuse for them not to have bank accounts, cards, etc., back from the days when they were prime working age and easily capable of dealing with cards etc.
Older people can become unable to use the cards that they were previously able to use. PIN numbers are difficult to remember, fingers are less delicate so typing in numbers is difficult - yes, contactless cards help but still sometimes need PINS - card machine displays are difficult to read. And if it's a declining capacity issue, the things that are remembered are the things they grew up with, not the new things they were learning in their 40s.

Contactless only became widespread 10-15 years ago, so for someone in their 80s, they may already have been in their 70s and beginning to be overwhelmed by all the technological changes. Yes your 70 year old DM may be happily emailing and using facebook and whatsapp on her smartphone, but she's less likely to be using Tiktok,
or have smart technology throughout her home.vb

feellikeanalien · 08/10/2021 12:15

A few years ago I remember being in a supermarket and having my card declined at the till because my bank's systems had gone down. I was unable to get cash out so had to leave my shopping.

On phoning the bank I was told there was nothing they could do and they were really not interested in helping. Luckily I had petrol in my car so could get home.

I live rurally and a lot of small businesses have to pay large amounts to the card companies. Many businesses in our local village and also in one of the neighbouring towns will not take cards for payments under £20. The way things are going at the moment, if they were unable to take cash, the extra payments they would be required to make to the card companies could be the difference between surviving or going under.

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 08/10/2021 12:16

I agree.

Post offices and banks should also give change out to enable this to happen.

It’s so difficult to get business accounts with a bank that will allow you to get change.

NCForthisxox · 08/10/2021 12:18

I used to work in a supported living for people with learning disabilities we used to give cash to the people who needed support , they were assessed as lacking capacity to handle their own finances then we had to count it and log the receipts . I have no idea how it would work now. I used to suggest having a separate petty cash card for each person to make it easier organising the finances but they always said no.

ddl1 · 08/10/2021 12:19

YANBU. For people with any sort of cognitive problem - whether dementia or learning disabilities- it's not just that getting a bank account and using a card may be more difficult (especially as for payments above a certain amount, you have to key in a password), but that it may put them at increased risk of fraud. It will also be difficult for them to deal with situations where a card is lost or stolen.

Kk789 · 08/10/2021 12:19

@SalsaLove

My dad is 87, with mild dementia and has no problem using a card. All you have to do is hold it in front of the machine. It’s easier than handling cash and there’s no possibility that the elderly or disabled will be ripped off since there’s no exchange of cash.
This comment is very ableist. Well done.
QuinceTamarillo · 08/10/2021 12:20

It's OK for private companies to go card only, but public utilities and providers of basic necessities should not.

Until recently, I lived in a country where the government have been trying (unsuccessfully) for years to establish a cash-free economy. Shops switched their existing auto tellers to card only and many things like vending machines for public transit tickets, lockers in train stations, etc. were overhauled to accept cards or there would be a mix of machines taking cash only and taking cards only, with the long-term plan of phasing out cash. The result was long queues to pay cash in person, and complaints if the cash-only machines were out of service.

At the start of COVID, this govt put out advice that cash should not be used, to avoid spreading the virus. Some merchants did switch to card only, but it was unpopular - the upscale independent mini-market in my apartment complex did this, but switched back quickly when they lost business to the chain mini-market across the street. My landlord still preferred the rent in cash so he didn't have to pay card processing fees. Small merchants often offer a discount for using cash. Some, like the people who do hairdressing or sewing at home, don’t have any way to process a card. Many people who have a card and are perfectly comfortable using it don’t want to be forced to use it in all situations. I can’t see that going over well in the UK either.

There’s also the escalating issue of fraud and identity theft. I had one of my cards compromised recently - people buying frozen yoghurt with it in Oregon at the same time they were using it in an ATM in Bali - and the bank had to stop the card, freeze the account, transfer the funds to a new account, and issue a new card which took ten days to reach me. I was abroad at the time and would have been really inconvenienced if I didn’t have another bank account with a different bank. Not everyone can afford that. Or what happens if a card is lost or stolen? You can’t have no access to any method of payment while it’s replaced. Not everyone has someone reliable to borrow from. And what happens in a situation like we saw in Kabul recently, where the ATMs were cleaned out and even the banks had no currency? People survived because they had cash hidden at home for an emergency. Yes, it's rare but that's cold comfort if it happens to you.

Finally, it’s inconvenient for people who travel internationally, as many cards will charge a transaction fee and a conversion fee for using the card abroad. At 5 EUR per transaction, this adds up if you’re tapping it for a single bus ticket, buying a snack from a vending machine, giving your change to a homeless person, etc.

All of the issues I've listed COULD be fixed in other ways, but haven't been. Any government move toward eliminating cash or seriously discouraging it would need a full impact assessment and public consultation.

ddl1 · 08/10/2021 12:22

In Norway for example only 3% of all transactions take place using cash and these are less than 1% of the total value of all transactions. Their old people are not starving because they can't figure out how to tap a card at a contactless terminal, their poor people are no destitute because they can not enter a pin number, their disabled are not abandoned because they are made to use electronic rather than physical money.

That's Norway, though. They provide far more assistance of all sorts to poor, disabled or elderly people than we do,

BelindaCinder · 08/10/2021 12:23

This is a bit of a side issue, I know, but I was in a car park a while ago with card only payment and a camera, so presumably a number plate recognition system. This means there is no marginal cost to the owner of charging, so they charge 24 hours a day.
A lot of car parks now only take cards and you either have to install some sort of software or send a text and wait for a phone call. I was put on hold for almost 30 minutes on one occasion.
Anyway, it would be good for everyone to have a choice of cash or card.

KirstenBlest · 08/10/2021 12:28

When everything is card only and there's a power cut, you can't buy anything.

Watchingyou2sleezes · 08/10/2021 12:34

Cash only has to be accepted when it's being offered to service up a pre existing debt.
Businesses could accept any kind of payment they feel like for a new contract.
I love cash myself and actually have a decent amount on me today for the first time in months. I hate the"new" notes though🙁

Pigeonpocket · 08/10/2021 12:36

Do you think all businesses should be forced to take cards too?
Some people find handling cash difficult for many reasons too, like visual impairment, or physical impairments that mean tapping a card is easier.

Businesses can decide for themselves and people that prefer to use cash (or cards) can use the businesses that provide the service that they need.

MatildaIThink · 08/10/2021 12:40

@KirstenBlest

When everything is card only and there's a power cut, you can't buy anything.
When there is a power cut the tills and lights don't work and shops shut anyway.
KeepPortlandWeird · 08/10/2021 12:42

@Nondescriptname that video link is attempt to pull heartstrings because post office counters have had their cash machines removed from the premises by the atm providers without their permission. Post offices especially our local one is furious because now he can’t fiddle his books so much without cash sales from customers. Really !

1vandal2 · 08/10/2021 12:43

There are chip and sign cards that you can get from the banks for those with dementia that cannot remember pin numbers. Though argueably they should not be shopping alone if it has progressed to that stage anyway.
Receipts show how much has been spent and on what for both cards and cash so not being able to use banking apps is no excuse.

MyCatEatsPrawnCrackers · 08/10/2021 12:47

My brother has LD and although he is able to work out change and use money he just understand debit cards. He tried to use the contactless option but it made him very anxious so he sticks to cash.

Milkbottlelegs · 08/10/2021 12:47

@KirstenBlest

When everything is card only and there's a power cut, you can't buy anything.
Most tills wouldn’t work either though. Nearly everywhere scans goods now. Orders are put through electronically. Operations would stop well before the point of payment.
Essexgirlupnorth · 08/10/2021 12:51

Went in a shop in St. Ives in the summer was card only and their Internet was down so couldn't take card payments.

Offered to pay cash and they refused. Must have missed out on a lot of sales that day.

SoftSheen · 08/10/2021 12:51

I agree.

Also - and I know this is trivial compared to the many serious reasons put forward by pp - younger children need to be able to pay in cash in order to spend their pocket money. If they never handle coins, it's harder to learn the value of them.

TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams · 08/10/2021 12:52

@JollyAndBright

YABU

Everyone can have a bank account, even the homeless. There’s no reason everyone can’t use cards other than personal preference.

if that if your preference you can shop in shops that take cash and not everywhere else.

This is completely untrue.

Banks charge for accounts without a basic level of funds going through.

Basic banking accounts exist but are very difficult to access and certainly not without an address.

DWP are closing the basic bank account provided under licence by the Post Office as part of the benefits system. They are moving to a voucher system for emergency payments and the very vulnerable who cannot get a bank account.

I hardly ever use cash but there are swathes of the population living below the poverty line, who are deeply vulnerable through age, mental state and disability who do need access to cash.

The access to cash campaign is an eye opener for those of us lucky enough to live in a bubble where short of the entire banking system going down (TSB anyone; Sweden 2 years ago I think) we never need to think about this stuff. It's well worth a read.

HarebrightCedarmoon · 08/10/2021 12:53

What are children supposed to do? You give them pocket money in cash so they can get used to it. Starting kids off on debit cards with no cash handling is just a recipe for disaster

I give mine pocket money on a pre-payment card.