To think we should be able to pay with cash?

[PearLime]

The government should enact a law making it illegal for retailers to accept card only.

It's a discriminatory practice, with elderly, disabled and low income people suffering the negative consequences.

AIBU?

I don't understand the disabled argument. A lot of people with LD would benefit hugely from a cashless society. I have intervened in a shop once where the cashier tried to give incorrect change to a customer with LD as they accepted the trust of the person as they handed the money over. A card at least limits the ability to do this and also means no carrying around notes that could get lost or stolen

I think YABU because it should be up to the retailer to decide what is acceptable to them. I can't think of any that specifically refuse cash round here, just ones that encourage paying by contactless where possible.

If a retailer refuses to accept cash, take your business elsewhere. Cash is on the way out and people have to adapt. There's no inherent reason why a person could use cash but not a card, it's only because they're more familiar with one than the other.

We need to remember the benefits of going cashless - no pensioner being mugged and losing their money for the fortnight, for example. If they have cash stolen, it's gone. If their card is stolen it's inconvenient but they'll get their money back.

@Pixiedust1234

I agree with you op, I would be totally screwed without access to cash. I don't have my own account so can't pay by card. Husband won't allow me access to his account but will hand over cash so I can buy bread/milk or coats for the kids, etc. Many ppl think that everyone is independent financially and this is so not the case with many women still being financially and/or otherwise abused.

This is such an important point that I didn't even think about. I'm sorry you're going through this.

On tons of threads on Mumsnet, women recommend that women in abusive relationships who are trying to escape squirrell money away over a period of time until they have enough to escape. What would women being financially abused who are trying to escape do if they couldn't even buy formula or nappies or a cab ride? They would be stuck.

Totally agree op
Good luck to anyone trying to open a bank account if they are homeless or living in a refuge.
It's unfair how alot of bank branches are closing down too. Basically making people have to travel into town to do any banking (if they don't have access to the internet). Harsh times.

@Justcallmebebes

"Everyone can have a bank account, even the homeless. There’s no reason everyone can’t use cards other than personal preference".

Is this right? I thought to open a bank account you need ID and proof of your address. I may be wrong and am happy to be corrected. I know you can get a basic no frills account to accept benefits but I didn't think they came with debit cards

They certainly need ID but if they are homeless every council area that I’ve ever worked in has had schemes to acquire ID for them - because it’s also needed for benefits etc. Most homelessness and addictions charities will also allow people to use their address as a care of address though in my experience most will have someone they know, even from the streets, who’s address they can supply.

@romdowa

My father has a brain injury , he has a bank account but finds using his card difficult, often forgets his pin etc. Your comment is extremely abelist

I’m sorry about your fathers injury but I’m not at all ableist.

For people with disabilities, mental health issues or dementia/alzheimers i genuinely believe using a card is better and offered more independence, there is no change to get confused over and it removes any risk of them being taken advantage of, scammed or robbed.

With contactless needing to know your pin isn’t an issue, I have no idea what any of my PIN numbers are and with the contactless limit being increased I have no need to learn them.

For those mentioning budgeting.
You don’t need cash to budget, with a pen and a piece of paper you can budget far better that by counting what cash you have, you don’t need to complicate it with bank statements, just keep your receipts and know what you are spending.

Completely agree OP. Also Im sick of being in shops when the system goes down and then chaos ensues. Everyone scrabbling in bags or running outside the shop to find someone with cash.

How often has this happened that you’re sick of it? I’ve been using shops for about 35 years and never seen it happen.

Each retailers should be allowed to decide, as now although the post offices should still accept and give out cash.

On the issue of cash NatWest did not notiec £365m being deposited in cash (you can hardly believe it) and are being fined hugely for it, on the subject of cash www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10068611/Natwest-pleads-guilty-failing-prevent-gold-dealer-depositing-365m-account.html and it is in the FT but behind a pay wall.

@SummerInSun

Cash is what enables VAT fraud and money laundering. Frankly, we be better off in terms of raising tax revenue and making life harder for organised crime if we banned cash.

I don't actually think we should do that, but every anti-money laundering course I've ever done (and for my job I have to do them every couple of years) points out that if you see a business that takes only cash, or only cash for some services, it is almost certainly doing it to dodge tax or worse.

Removing cash and making it cards only whatever the transaction would certainly tackle the growing issue of drug abuse. I've watched a few police programmes where they seize thousands of pounds in bundled notes from dealers. I can't see the local cannabis dealer wanting to have to take cards only.

@DGRossetti

Cash is what enables VAT fraud and money laundering.

Not really. Amazon and Russian billionaires are hardly dodging tax by doing business in folding fivers are they ? That's a just lazy thinking for the easily explained.

What is lazy thinking is saying that Amazon dodge tax, they simply run their business in a way that minimises paying tax in perfectly legal ways

Surely you don't think that all the territories they sell in are allowing them to get away with tax evasion.

I'm not any kind of Amazon fan but at least criticise them for something legitimate

[quote JollyAndBright]@romdowa

My father has a brain injury , he has a bank account but finds using his card difficult, often forgets his pin etc. Your comment is extremely abelist

I’m sorry about your fathers injury but I’m not at all ableist.

For people with disabilities, mental health issues or dementia/alzheimers i genuinely believe using a card is better and offered more independence, there is no change to get confused over and it removes any risk of them being taken advantage of, scammed or robbed.

With contactless needing to know your pin isn’t an issue, I have no idea what any of my PIN numbers are and with the contactless limit being increased I have no need to learn them.

For those mentioning budgeting.
You don’t need cash to budget, with a pen and a piece of paper you can budget far better that by counting what cash you have, you don’t need to complicate it with bank statements, just keep your receipts and know what you are spending.[/quote]
I hope you carry some cash then for when the system decides to do a random PIN check. It's bound to happen at some point.

@Comefromaway
I'll admit I hated online banking, everytime I went to use it I had to reset passwords as I'd never remember them & jump a million hoops.
Smartphone - with finger print reader. That has been the big game changer for me. No trying to remember a bundle of passwords, codes and even better spell out letters of magic words. Set it up once and the finger does the rest.

Given the way the world is going that's the future, I'd seriously look at it for your DS to try and future proof him the best you can.

@Fridafever

Completely agree OP. Also Im sick of being in shops when the system goes down and then chaos ensues. Everyone scrabbling in bags or running outside the shop to find someone with cash.

How often has this happened that you’re sick of it? I’ve been using shops for about 35 years and never seen it happen.

It's happened to me about half a dozen or so times.

My Dad lives in a retirement village. He could pay for anything there with his debit card, but he always draws cash out of the ATM. He can't remember how to use the internet, so he can't do on-line banking. If he wants to know his balance, I have to log on to his on-line banking, which always pings a one time password to his mobile phone, which takes him ages to find, so I end up hanging on the phone forever and can feel his frustration from 350 miles away. Cash is king for the elderly.

@Fridafever

Completely agree OP. Also Im sick of being in shops when the system goes down and then chaos ensues. Everyone scrabbling in bags or running outside the shop to find someone with cash.

How often has this happened that you’re sick of it? I’ve been using shops for about 35 years and never seen it happen.

It did happen recently when, I think, the MasterCard system was down for a while, there was some rushing out of my local Aldi but, yes, it's a bit ridiculous to suggest it's any kind of common issue

Not long ago, I lost my wallet while abroad.

It was the morning of my flight back. I'd gotten a new wallet and transferred the most important and needed things to it. I then left it behind in a shop when I was collecting my order. I was already on the train and out of the city (I was in city A, airport in city B) when the lady, having my number off the order, was able to call me. Thankfully I found some cash that had been left behind in my old wallet because it got among other currency notes and a few loose coins in my bag because of the hole in my old wallet, otherwise I would have had to rush to a bank branch. I was therefore able to get myself some food (train was in the morning, I would arrive home late evening) and even more necessarily, get a bus ticket to take me from the train station to the airport so I could get the flight.

If everything was card only and I had lost all my cards, what would have happened to me?

I can see both sides here. I was in line at Coach a couple of weeks ago, and I'm fairly certain the couple ahead of me tried to grift the cashier by using cash. The item they were purchasing was a few hundred dollars, and they paid in cash, and when they got their change, insisted that they had paid in larger bills than what they had. The cashier got flustered and the manager came over and it was a whole thing. Cashless would certainly curtail that sort of behavior. I was a cashier when I was in college and it surprising how often people try to pull that.

But, I also get that people struggle to use a card. Ultimately, I don't think a law is the answer, I think it's a "vote with your feet" situation.

[quote Lockdownbear]@Comefromaway
I'll admit I hated online banking, everytime I went to use it I had to reset passwords as I'd never remember them & jump a million hoops.
Smartphone - with finger print reader. That has been the big game changer for me. No trying to remember a bundle of passwords, codes and even better spell out letters of magic words. Set it up once and the finger does the rest.

Given the way the world is going that's the future, I'd seriously look at it for your DS to try and future proof him the best you can.[/quote]
Unfortunately he had his iphone stolen so we have had to get him a cheaper phone for now but I do plan on getting him one with facial recognition when we can.

@PearLime

The government should enact a law making it illegal for retailers to accept card only.

It's a discriminatory practice, with elderly, disabled and low income people suffering the negative consequences.

AIBU?

Shops can trade as they wish. They can set their own prices, choose to serve you, or not serve you. Obviously abiding by the current discrimination laws.

Not having a credit/debit card is not a protected characteristic. Cash for retailers is a massive ball-ache. Someone has to count it, take the risk of accepting fake currency, bag it, make sure it tallies, take it to the bank, pay it in or arrange for a security company to pick it up. Whereas with a card machine yes there's a fee, but it takes away ALL the faff.

The only places I have seen that are card only ate coffee shops, and usually more pop up style than a big Starbucks.

If someone isn’t comfortable using a debit card I can’t imagine they are going to be happy to use a self scan check out. The reason supermarkets made them card only is because the vast majority of people use a card at them.

Lockdownbear, my phone had finger print recognition access that I had to turn off - I get very dry, flaky skin on my hands in cold weather and I couldn't get into my phone!

I agree, OP.

We spent a lot of time in poverty growing up and my mum's card would regularly overdrawn, meaning she couldn't use it to pay or withdraw money. If any money went into the account, the overdraft and bills would eat it up and we wouldn't be able to eat. Obviously that's not an ideal way to live having so much debt, but being handed cash from a relative meant we could eat - had it gone into the account we would have starved.

I also agree about being able to track purchases easily. If you have £20 in your hand it's much easier to carefully budget as you can see where each penny goes. Much easier to tap the card for £2 here, £3 there and not notice in the same way.

Given the way the world is going that's the future, I'd seriously look at it for your DS to try and future proof him the best you can.

We opened an account for DS when he was 13 and paid his pocket money into it, and he used his card to either pay or get cash to pay. 12 years ago. (Ironically in his job in a casino he never handles cash on the floor, but does have to count it out when people roll up with suitcases of it to change into chips. Most he's ever counted in one go is £100,000 apparenly)

To be honest a lot of the people cited in this thread sound too vulnerable to be carrying and using cash or card. I'd be reluctant to let someone so vulnerable be seen suing cash in public- they're a sitting duck for a mugging or scamming. How we support our vulnerable is the issue, not sending them out into the world alone laden with cash not cards.

Debit cards have been in common use since the '90s- it's very patronising to suggest people are incompetent because they are a certain age.

You can't force businesses to accept certain payment methods- they need to be able to operate profitable business models and we then support our vulnerable to cope with the methods available.

@Precipice

Not long ago, I lost my wallet while abroad.

It was the morning of my flight back. I'd gotten a new wallet and transferred the most important and needed things to it. I then left it behind in a shop when I was collecting my order. I was already on the train and out of the city (I was in city A, airport in city B) when the lady, having my number off the order, was able to call me. Thankfully I found some cash that had been left behind in my old wallet because it got among other currency notes and a few loose coins in my bag because of the hole in my old wallet, otherwise I would have had to rush to a bank branch. I was therefore able to get myself some food (train was in the morning, I would arrive home late evening) and even more necessarily, get a bus ticket to take me from the train station to the airport so I could get the flight.

If everything was card only and I had lost all my cards, what would have happened to me?

Exactly. Ds had that situation when he lost his wallet. We were able to give him a code which he entered into the cashpoint to get a set amount of cash out. Nat West are great for that.