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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think school staff should make care provision for their dogs?

530 replies

LoveTheirDogs · 07/10/2021 12:02

Our headteacher and business manager have both got dogs in the last six months. Now they're bringing those dogs into school. They're saying that the dogs are 'school dogs' which seems to mean that they're dogs that mostly hang around in school. They've also scheduled a number of 'enrichment activities' for the kids so that they can 'learn how to interact with different species' ie their dogs. AIBU to think this is taking the piss and they should just make provision for their dogs same as any other working person rather than having the whole school have to go to these (non-accredited) 'courses' that clearly cost a fortune and are only being put on so that BM and HT can tick a box that says everything is ok with them bringing their pets to work?

OP posts:
Cactus1982 · 07/10/2021 13:52

@Comedycook

someone says that they ‘hate dogs’ its usually a massive red flag with regards to their character in my experience

I dislike dogs not because I'm a psychopath but because I am petrified of anything which is unpredictable. I understand human beings...I can guess how they will respond to certain situations. I have no idea how dogs will respond so I'm permanently on edge around them

Have you ever owned a dog? Has no one in your family owned one? A well trained dog isn’t all that unpredictable and responds to its owners commands. I’d take a well behaved and well trained dog over many humans I know (and in my experience, yes we can be very unpredictable).
Lockheart · 07/10/2021 13:54

I am petrified of anything which is unpredictable.

Have you ever met a toddler? Most unpredictable and volatile creatures on the planet in my experience Grin

HoundofHades · 07/10/2021 13:56

@LoveTheirDogs

They're not puppies, no. Both full grown dogs. One's from Romania, the other I don't know from where but they're foreign rescues. It's being billed as 'being accepting of dogs from other countries' kind of thing, but really to me it just looks like they cba to pay walkers and instead are taking their pets into their workplace.
There's no way that these dogs should be allowed into the school, and around (noisy, excitable) children, then - for the dogs' sake as well as the children who might end up being hurt as a result! And I say this as someone who has a rescue dog from abroad. After all, there's a reason as to why reputable rescue centres in the UK aren't happy to rehome dogs into homes with children under a certain age - and that's to protect the children from potentially being badly hurt, and the dogs from feeling pushed to the point of having to cause that sort of injury.

Complain to the Board, and the LEA itself about this. They're not "school dogs", they're pets who are being exploited at a potential risk to children (not to mention the fact that there will be pupils with allergies to their dander/fur).

I'd be furious if i were a parent of a pupil at this school.

Doveyouknow · 07/10/2021 13:56

We have a school dog and it's great. It's not cured my Ds of his general fear of dogs unfortunately but he isn't scared of the school dog! But the dog has been properly trained as a therapy dog and is super calm. That doesn't apply here and I would be very pissed off if the head of the school thought it was appropriate to bring a random dog they got off Facebook (which is essentially what these foreign rescue dogs are likely to be) to school. It's not a therapy dog, it's not trained and, if it's come from the conditions most foreign rescues are found in, a school full noisy children is probably bloody terrifying for it.

Hiccuppppp · 07/10/2021 13:58

@Comedycook

I'd ask to see the risk assessment
Why would you want to see one?

Are you a specialist in canine risk assessment?

NewlyGranny · 07/10/2021 13:58

I knew a head once who brought two dogs into school and her unemployed husband, too! They all sat around in her office doing nothing.

At least the dogs weren't earwigging confidential conversations: the husband certainly was! He was never introduced or explained, he was just there...

XelaM · 07/10/2021 13:58

It's so lovely for the kids to have school pets! My daughter's nursery had an amazing huge Persian cat and that made the kids fay so much more fun. You are being totally unreasonable

Mischance · 07/10/2021 14:00

Just because the two staff love their dogs does not mean that others should also do so.

Ask to see the risk assessment and make sure they have done one - which they are obliged to do.

It is simply wrong in principle, firstly because it is a piss-take; and secondly because dogs and children only mix in small numbers with very close supervision. This is not possible in school.

And the school is there to cater for ALL their pupils, some of whom might not be keen on dogs. They are allowed to not be keen.

Hiccuppppp · 07/10/2021 14:01

Complain to the Board, and the LEA itself about this. They're not "school dogs", they're pets who are being exploited at a potential risk to children (not to mention the fact that there will be pupils with allergies to their dander/fur).

What Board? RSPCA? Dogs Trust?
The term LEA hasn't existed for years and approx 50% of schools are not under LA control.

Nillynally · 07/10/2021 14:02

@PesosBandage

Dammit. I left my teaching job to stay at home with my toddler, as I didn't want to put him into nursery just yet. Kicking myself for not pitching the idea to the school of a "school toddler".
This would be wonderful, I'm going to pitch it to my head (Who has a school dog so can't complain) we could use the toddler for reward time, they could read to the toddler, the older ones could even have a go at changing nappies and dealing with tantrums to help towards future parenting or child care studies. This is genius!
Comedycook · 07/10/2021 14:03

@Hiccuppppp

What a ridiculous comment. I'd like to see the risk assessment because there should be one

Hiccuppppp · 07/10/2021 14:04

@Powertoyou

I wonder if a teaching assistant would be allowed to bring in their dog?
Lots of school dogs live with TAs.
Hiccuppppp · 07/10/2021 14:06

[quote Comedycook]@Hiccuppppp

What a ridiculous comment. I'd like to see the risk assessment because there should be one[/quote]
And why should you see it?

It will have been seen by the insurance underwriter (LA or ESFA) and by the governors. It will have been checked as part of an Ofsted inspection (in my experience they always ask for the dog risk assessment)

What additional expertise do you bring?

LeaveYourHatOn · 07/10/2021 14:07

I love the way basically everyone on the thread whose kids have a school dog or who had one as a child thinks it's a brilliant idea and explains exactly why it's good, and how it's dealt with re. allergies and fear of dogs.
And then you have all the ones who have no experience in this going "OMG NO risk assessment alleriges fear attacks unpredictable distracting blah blah blah"

ArrrMeHearties · 07/10/2021 14:07

notonthestairs your dd's school sounds absolutely amazing 😍😍

Hiccuppppp · 07/10/2021 14:08

[quote Comedycook]@Hiccuppppp

What a ridiculous comment. I'd like to see the risk assessment because there should be one[/quote]
It isn't your responsibility as a parent to check that one in place.

If you have no professional expertise to add then what is the purpose of you checking the risk assessment?

Comedycook · 07/10/2021 14:09

why should you see it?

It will have been seen by the insurance underwriter (LA or ESFA) and by the governors. It will have been checked as part of an Ofsted inspection (in my experience they always ask for the dog risk assessment)

What additional expertise do you bring

Well we're talking about the op...I doubt she'd bring any expertise (I could be wrong) but the op presumably doesn't want to help write the risk assessment...just view it so that she knows how the school will mitigate any risks, thats if the risk assessment exists obviously...

ImNotDancing · 07/10/2021 14:09

Absolutely missing the point but why does a school have a business manager?

Blossomtoes · 07/10/2021 14:10

[quote Comedycook]@Hiccuppppp

What a ridiculous comment. I'd like to see the risk assessment because there should be one[/quote]
How would you know if it was any good?

Comedycook · 07/10/2021 14:10

If you have no professional expertise to add then what is the purpose of you checking the risk assessment

To see if it even exists...I can't see how anyone would approve rescue dogs from abroad being in a school? What's their history?

FictionalCharacter · 07/10/2021 14:11

I agree, they’re just bringing their pets in and calling them school dogs, and there’s very little benefit to pupils if any. My dd’s school had 2 teachers do this.

Mischance · 07/10/2021 14:11

Hiccuppppp

The risk assessment should include:

  • a recognition that there is risk with dogs around children
  • details of actions that are to be taken to minimize this risk: where and when the children will be in contact with the dog, who will be responsible for supervision at each of those occasions.
  • details of how potential allergy problems are to be identified and dealt with.
  • details of how children who are not happy around dogs are to be identified and how this is to be respected. How these children are to be given free choice about whether they are near the dog or not without censure or indoctrination
  • how excrement is to be dealt with - who is responsible for this
  • details of how parents can have input into this process, and how their choices can be respected

A detailed risk assessment has to be done for everything on school, short of when and where you fart, so this should be no different, especially as the risk is very real.

Dogs are unpredictable, especially around children, who are also unpredictable. This is a dangerous combination. Dogs have teeth and they bite - there is no way they can be exempt from a proper risk assessment.

Again I say - speak to the school governors - it is they who are obliged to ensure that all proper safeguarding is taking place.

Hiccuppppp · 07/10/2021 14:12

Well we're talking about the op...I doubt she'd bring any expertise (I could be wrong) but the op presumably doesn't want to help write the risk assessment...just view it so that she knows how the school will mitigate any risks, thats if the risk assessment exists obviously...

It wasn't the OP I was relying to
But if as parent you trust the schools little that you feel that you need check risk assessments when you have no qualifications or experience so then maybe you should be looking for a school where you feel your children will be safe.

Comedycook · 07/10/2021 14:14

@Hiccuppppp

Well we're talking about the op...I doubt she'd bring any expertise (I could be wrong) but the op presumably doesn't want to help write the risk assessment...just view it so that she knows how the school will mitigate any risks, thats if the risk assessment exists obviously...

It wasn't the OP I was relying to
But if as parent you trust the schools little that you feel that you need check risk assessments when you have no qualifications or experience so then maybe you should be looking for a school where you feel your children will be safe.

My DC go to a fantastic school that I trust. I'd have serious questions to ask if a couple of Romanian rescue dogs became permanent members of the school community.
Hiccuppppp · 07/10/2021 14:15

@Mischance

Hiccuppppp

The risk assessment should include:

  • a recognition that there is risk with dogs around children
  • details of actions that are to be taken to minimize this risk: where and when the children will be in contact with the dog, who will be responsible for supervision at each of those occasions.
  • details of how potential allergy problems are to be identified and dealt with.
  • details of how children who are not happy around dogs are to be identified and how this is to be respected. How these children are to be given free choice about whether they are near the dog or not without censure or indoctrination
  • how excrement is to be dealt with - who is responsible for this
  • details of how parents can have input into this process, and how their choices can be respected

A detailed risk assessment has to be done for everything on school, short of when and where you fart, so this should be no different, especially as the risk is very real.

Dogs are unpredictable, especially around children, who are also unpredictable. This is a dangerous combination. Dogs have teeth and they bite - there is no way they can be exempt from a proper risk assessment.

Again I say - speak to the school governors - it is they who are obliged to ensure that all proper safeguarding is taking place.

I love all these armchair school dog risk assessment experts.

You have actually missed 2 of the most important things that it has to contain.