AIBU to think school staff should make care provision for their dogs?

[LoveTheirDogs]

Our headteacher and business manager have both got dogs in the last six months. Now they're bringing those dogs into school. They're saying that the dogs are 'school dogs' which seems to mean that they're dogs that mostly hang around in school. They've also scheduled a number of 'enrichment activities' for the kids so that they can 'learn how to interact with different species' ie their dogs. AIBU to think this is taking the piss and they should just make provision for their dogs same as any other working person rather than having the whole school have to go to these (non-accredited) 'courses' that clearly cost a fortune and are only being put on so that BM and HT can tick a box that says everything is ok with them bringing their pets to work?

[quote lawofdistraction]@supperlover what exactly about rural North Devon do you find progressive? I'm genuinely interested because perhaps there's something I've missed. [/quote]
Not 'progressive but we were surrounded by interesting, artistic and creative people. Several of the parents in our children's primary came from outside the area or ' up country' as the locals referred to anywhere beyond Taunton. I must confess most of our friends there were not Devonians and my husband taught in a public school in the area and I think only two of the teaching staff therewere from Devon. I have lived in several parts of the UK and in N. Devon there seemed to be an interest in green politics,vegetarianism and environmental issues long before it became more mainstream. You still haven't addressed your 'rural backwater ' comment. No problem with your feelings about rural schools, Devon etc just think a town or city person calling an area a rural backwater is quite rude.

YABU. Our school has a school dog, chosen with allergies and breeds temperament taken into consideration, very well trained, they have sent out a consent form and information request to find out who are scared of dogs, who's allergic and wants their children to have access to dogs. Very beneficial to a lot of children and helps a lot. My sons were both terrified of dogs after one tried to attack me, I just simply tried to get them to interact with dogs regularly and took about 2-3 years to get them to realise that not all dogs are the same. Took a long time but was well worth it. The dogs are there to help with children's mental health.

^^ this!!!!

[quote wildchild554]@1ittlegreen I'm allergic to dogs there are hypoallergenic dogs, my specialist even gave me a list for when I get my son a dog.[/quote]
If you were allergic to dogs you wouldn't be getting your son a dog. Your specialist (??) prolly knows you only have the sniffles. They are probably private and just placating you.

@supperlover I am addressing it, it's literally what we're discussing. Just because you were friends with some creative and environmentally minded people (who you admit were mostly not local) doesn't mean that 1980s rural Devon was a progressive place. It fits the definition of backwater perfectly so once again, what went in schools there decades ago is not relevant.

The only dogs that should be in schools are working dogs - guide dog for a blind teacher/pupil, a hearing dog for a deaf teacher/pupil or a therapy dog for a teacher/pupil who has cerebral palsy or has had a stroke. Pet dogs tend to dominate working dogs which make for problems as only one has an absolute right to be in school. And it is not the pet!

This brings back good memories of prep school days when the Headmistress brought her dog to school. It use to curl up under desk in her study or follow her around when she visited classrooms. Her gown was always covered in dog hairs. As a special treat two pupils were allowed to take it for a walk at lunchtime. My sister got chosen. I didn’t!

I’ve known lots of school dogs over the years, even when o was a child myself. Of course they are actually pets and not just locked in the building alone for nights, weekends and holidays in the stationary cupboard.

This is definitely one of those ‘only mumsnet’ dramas. Google will tell you how common this is even if you have never heard of it.
Inventing all sorts of possible ‘what ifs’ like massive allergies. If someone does have a significant allergy the dogs will be gone or they’ll be a zero contact solution. They’re not going to have some poor kid or parent using epipens every other day.
It’s not going to be sitting in a maths lesson intimidating some terrified kid with a dog phobia. You’ll find that would lead to a safeguarding action pretty fast.
It’s a dog, some schools have them. Some don’t. Even if not in your bubble before, it doesn’t mean it hasn’t worked already in hundreds of settings.
Maybe even, though this is a mind blower I know, the teachers may be able to afford dog sitters etc or have someone but have actually made an altruistic decision to bring the dog. They see it has a great temperament and have read about the benefits it could bring children. Maybe they just want to make the school the happiest place they can. I know though many will massively struggle with that depiction of teaching staff, as people who like their jobs and children, and who want to make the best of their job they can…

I would a) ask to see the risk assessment b) ask them what insurance they have for an incident involving the dog(s) and c) ask what is in place to keep those children who don't want to be near the dog(s) away from the dog(s).

This is a stupid move by the head IMO.

DD wouldn't be able to do any work as she would be too busy thinking about the dog and when she could stroke it next!

@Mirw

The only dogs that should be in schools are working dogs - guide dog for a blind teacher/pupil, a hearing dog for a deaf teacher/pupil or a therapy dog for a teacher/pupil who has cerebral palsy or has had a stroke. Pet dogs tend to dominate working dogs which make for problems as only one has an absolute right to be in school. And it is not the pet!

So all the therapy dogs used to support children with SEN, anxiety, and all the other conditions improved by therapy dogs - you don’t think they exist?

Right-o

These dogs aren’t therapy dogs though - they’re pets, they’re not trained, and are more likely to increase anxiety amongst children who are scared of dogs.

@SirChenjins

These dogs aren’t therapy dogs though - they’re pets, they’re not trained, and are more likely to increase anxiety amongst children who are scared of dogs.

The difference between a pet dog and a therapy dog can be a 15 min assessment by an organisation such as Pets as Therapy where they assess the temperament of the dog to check, amongst other things, it’s ability to sit nicely and calmly in a school setting.

It’s not a guide dog training programme

I say this as someone with a therapy dog…

And this is not the case here - there’s been no assessment or registration with any organisation - these are rescue dogs that the HT and the BM got over lockdown and have now hit on a great idea for free pet care.

I notice you didn’t address my point about dogs that aren’t trained as therapy pets increasing anxiety amongst children who are scared of them.

We’ve never been told whether or not there’s been a risk assessment.

@SirChenjins

And this is not the case here - there’s been no assessment or registration with any organisation - these are rescue dogs that the HT and the BM got over lockdown and have now hit on a great idea for free pet care.

I notice you didn’t address my point about dogs that aren’t trained as therapy pets increasing anxiety amongst children who are scared of them.

A) you have absolutely no information on whether an assessment has been done It might have been done months ago, it might have been done last week. Just because OP doesn’t know about an assessment doesn’t mean it didn’t happen

It’s also just a guess on the part of OP that this is being done ‘for pet care’. There is no evidence at all for that either, than OPs guess, and by her admission, she really dislikes both members of staff so do we really know she is being objective on this..?

B) any evidence of that? Sounds like an anecdote plucked from nowhere to back up a point you’re trying to make

A) If they were going to be therapy pets the school would have explained exactly how they were going to be used for that purpose and how they linked (in an evidence based way) to the curriculum - there’s been nothing from the HT or the BM.

B)what point exactly do you I’m trying to make. Children who are scared of dogs are scared of dogs - their anxiety isn’t going to reduce by being exposed to them in an uncontrolled way. If you have a therapy pet you’ll know when it’s appropriate to use them and when it’s not.

And by assessment I meant assessment of the rescue dogs as therapy pets by a organisation which can approve them as such.

@SirChenjins

A) If they were going to be therapy pets the school would have explained exactly how they were going to be used for that purpose and how they linked (in an evidence based way) to the curriculum - there’s been nothing from the HT or the BM.

B)what point exactly do you I’m trying to make. Children who are scared of dogs are scared of dogs - their anxiety isn’t going to reduce by being exposed to them in an uncontrolled way. If you have a therapy pet you’ll know when it’s appropriate to use them and when it’s not.

A) err have you actually read the first post on this thread..? OP says amongst other things that “They've also scheduled a number of 'enrichment activities' for the kids so that they can 'learn how to interact with different species'” So the school clearly has done that There is tonnes of evidence supporting the use of therapy pets in school settings

B) so you concede there isn’t actually any evidence that therapy dogs that will increase anxiety in children who are scared of dogs? It’s just a guess on your part?

This would be carage at my school, it's strictly no dogs on site or every Tom Dick and Harry would bring their dogs in at drop off and pick up, some of the dogs that get tied to the railings are funking terrifying.

A. No - self styled ‘enrichment activities’ is not the same as confirming that these are therapy pets, nor does it demonstrate how the therapy pets (once they’ve confirmed they are indeed approved therapy pets and not just the HT and BM pets they’re bringing to school) specifically link to the curriculum.

B. I never said that - I said “they’re pets, they’re not trained, and are more likely to increase anxiety amongst children who are scared of dogs”.
Therapy pets - used properly in controlled ways by people who are specifically trained to work with children who have anxieties and phobias relating to dogs will be very successful.

@SirChenjins
Your reading comprehension is really, really poor
You are making wild assumptions based on very little information

There is nothing in OPs posts to say whether the dogs are assessed, or if they are trained, or if they are doing this in conjunction with an established organisation
You are simply assuming they aren’t because it fits your argument better

You also clearly don’t have the first clue about therapy dogs, how they get labelled as therapy dogs and what sort of training they need to get there

This is probably not the hill for you to die on…

I would suggest you check your own reading comprehension on point B before you start calling others into question.

I am free to assume that the dogs aren’t trained therapy pets, you are free to assume they are. I’m sure both suits our individual arguments which is why we’re using them .

And ditto to your hill.

This is what you said:

“These dogs aren’t therapy dogs though” - you have no way of knowing that
“they’re pets” - all therapy dogs are pets
“they’re not trained” - again, you have no way of knowing that
“and are more likely to increase anxiety amongst children who are scared of dogs.” - more likely that what? On what basis are you ranking dogs which are more or less likely to increase anxiety?

See, your post makes absolutely no sense…

My post makes perfect sense in terms for the purposes of my argument.

It doesn’t make sense for the purposes of your argument,

See how that works?