My just turned 3 year old can read and write

[Rockean]

This isn’t a brag post, although. I’m pretty sure it’s going to come across like one.

My son just turned 3 and he can write his name, write basic/familiar words that he can sound out (the letters are recognisable) and he can sound out words when we look at books together. He loves playing with his magnetic letters and puts them together to create words, he can tell me what they say too.

He’s taught himself this through watching Alphablocks and reading books with us since he was tiny, particularly a phonics book that had all the sounds and alphabet written out with pictures of each letter of the alphabet next to them,

I’m just wondering if this is unusual?

He also doesn’t really play with toys, even though he has plenty of them, he'd much rather look at books and line up his alphabet letters or make words out of them. He’ll also sit with his magma doodle or white board and pen and just write things out. He’s done it at soft play when other kids are playing and I’ve bought his magma doodle.
I want him to play with toys too and I try to encourage him, but obviously I don’t want to discourage him from the books/letters and phonic sounds , but equally he’s going to know much more than most of his peers when he starts school, so I’m worried it’ll be boring for him.

@Rockean

I’ve just had a quick look and I have suspected he’s on the autistic spectrum, but his speech is excellent and he always makes eye contact when you speak to him, he’s also very affectionate. He’s very sociable with other children as well. So I’m not sure.

He has a fantastic memory too.

He does seem to have sensory issues, he can’t stand the hand dryer in public toilets and babies crying set him off too.

You have just described my son to a T who also taught himself to read by nursery age.

He’s autistic. Very high functioning (according to his diagnosis) and he is in mainstream with a one to one.

Sensory issues have improved with age but at 3 they were hard to manage.

Being advanced academically will allow him to concentrate on the social side of school and nursery.

I taught my older sister to read and write when I was three. I was diagnosed with Asperger's a couple of years ago, although I've no idea if that's significant or not. Speaking from experience I would encourage your DS to have other interests for his long-term development and would definitely be leaving the Magna Doodle at home when visiting soft-play etc.

"Being advanced academically will allow him to concentrate on the social side of school*

Hmmm. Being able to to read doesn't make you advanced academically. Most 50s and 60s could read before they started school.

he can’t stand the hand dryer in public toilets

All small children loathe them. And all small children are bad at sharing. It's the most difficult thing we ever learn, apparently. Except for twins who have a natural advantage.

Can’t most 3 year olds do that?

Most Mumsnet response ever.

No, most just-turned-3yos can't read and write words. It's not unheard of/bizarre, but it's unusual.

No, I don't think it's the norm.

I was reading from the encyclopedia at age 3. I became obsessed with maps and always helped my mum when she was driving. This was back in the 60s.

I skipped several grades. It was terrifying as I was already small and young for my age due to the dates school started.

I've never been diagnosed with autism but have ADHD and fairly certain my older sister is autistic.

My life has been fine but I am prone to severe depression which is fairly common.

The world isn't so kind to women geniuses.

Your description of your son was just like my daughter at that age. Sociable, good imagination and language. Made eye contact, taught herself to read at 3. Excellent memory. Also autistic (not diagnosed until age 8 after an 18 month wait on the waiting list. Had suspicions from age 6).

Keep an eye out. But also enjoy celebrating that you have a very clever little boy.

I could read well at age 3 and was self taught. As a child in the 1970’s and especially as a girl I was never diagnosed with anything. I also have a knack of seeing patterns in numbers and have a recall memory that scares people. I can remember every telephone number I have had to use on a somewhat regular basis since I was little and I’m in my fifties now.

To be honest being that academically advanced meant I was so different all the other kids just thought I was weird. DH is very much like me as well. DS seems more regular and is just plain old clever.

I know someone whose child could read well at 3 , he has social issues and is diagnosed with autism.

MY son could read and write quite well when he was about two and a half, that was because I spent quite a lot of time teaching him, but not in any forceful way at all. This was in the 1970's, and he had quite a lot of the Ladybird books, which were good for showing words written down, as well as pictures and stories. Also, there were very little distractions at home, as no screens and gadgets then.

MY son will have seen me writing quite a lot, as I attempted to write a few children's stories myself, and also I do a fair amount of letter writing to family and friends. Not sure that made any difference to my son, but he was always trying to copy me at the table, when I had pens and paper out.

@Rockean My DS1 sounds exactly like your DS - even down to the problems with knives and forks, difficulty potty training, issues sharing with others, and hatred of hand dryers.

He was expelled from a private pre-prep for challenging behaviour at 3, has now been diagnosed with ASD, and has just started a mainstream reception where he receives SEN support.

I found the ASD diagnosis helpful because the first school made me feel like a bad mum with a delinquent child. I now know that he finds large groups of children overwhelming, although he makes friends one-to-one with other kids.

He’s a chatty sweet little boy who, this evening, invited me to play a game with him because “I love you, mummy” - so, any stereotypes of ASD you may have are probably wrong. He was, however, visibly very different at 20 months from how our DS2 is at the same age, so it’s now more obvious to us that DS1 is neurodiverse with a spiky developmental profile.

I wouldn’t worry about your DS - just enjoy his company (and his giftedness) . DH and I were both ‘weird kids’, and we’re both fine.

@Rockean I have 3 brothers. Myself and one other brother were reading before we went to school. The other two weren't. Three of us have done pretty (or very) well as adults, decent universities, jobs that pay above average etc. Not all the jobs are reliant on academics. The 4th brother has many varied additional need and extreme mental health issues that have hampered him throughout life so not fair to compare him really. What I'm saying is that reading before school age can happen and can be great but there are many many things that are still to be learnt and discovered. When it comes to picking a school I would be asking them what they would do with a child who's already reading (and has already learnt through phonics as many have learnt by a different method and need to 'start again' in order to be able progress using that method further down the year groups).

In terms of autism....obviously I haven't met your DC. But I did just want to point out that what you have listed as signs that he doesn't have it aren't necessarily the case. My DS is autistic. People would constantly say he couldn't possibly be because of his great eye contact and because he was friendly. He also had a great vocabulary (he just didn't really know what to do with all the words he had and sort of had to be taught how to put them together!) He has an astonishing memory and has a lovely little group of friends. Autism is a spectrum of traits-think of it like a pie chart rather than a linear scale. So for my DS he would have a small 'chunk' on the pie chart for (say) eye contact and social skills, but still have all the chunks present on the pie to qualify for the diagnosis if that makes sense?
Sorry, I'm massively waffling but if you have thought about autism before then it may be worth talking to your health visitor? Does he attend a pre-school and could you get their opinion? What's coming out to me is that he'd rather play with a manga doodle at a soft play, possibly his sensory behaviour (not always an indicator at this age but can be), seemingly little/no interest in any other toys or activities (my DS was car mad and could only really do small world play at about age 4 by recreating the film Cars and quoting directly rather than using his imagination) and obviously the advanced reading/writing. With autism, one sign can just be a sign of being three years old but if there's lots of signs then perhaps that warrants further investigation. As I say, I don't know him, I'm not diagnosing him, but just going by what you've said and my experience as a parent and an SEN teacher. Fwiw if he is it doesn't change anything about how fabulous he is, just opens a few more doors for him and gets the support at least starting to roll into place if he needs it.

And well done for following your child's interests and trying to gently introduce different things rather than forcing him!

My dd is 3.5 and has been reading since she was 3. I didn't teacher her phonics or anything like that because I don't want her to be bored at school. My parenting style is just let's play.
I only realised when she tapped a sign that said closed and then said the word. When we got home I wrote a list of cvc words and she read them. Wrote list of longer words like colours, days of the week - she read them. Wrote short sentences, she read them.
I've had concerns she's on the spectrum too. She didn't point or wave until nearly 2.5 but then her language exploded and she was reading within 6mo.
She's the same mathematically, told me yesterday that 1,4,9,16,25,36,49 and 64 are square numbers, her memory is incredible.

She does have good eye contact, but is quite anxious at the thought of change.

What was your ds's early development like in terms of pointing, joint attention etc? That might give you more of an insight into whether there's something worth getting checked out

@Rockean your ds sounds quite similar to my dd. She could read and write before she started school, extensive vocabulary, spoke very well. She kind of potty trained herself just before she was 2. Just 3efused to go in her nappy. She was so easy and a toddler and was very advanced in when she started school.

She is 18 soon, not autistic. Academically I would say she is on the higher end of normal. Not outstanding but doing well. She is going to study law next year, her GCSEs results were great (she was the 2020 year so didn't do final exams) and doing very well in her a-levels.

Ds was the opposite. He was a late talker, hated potty training, didn't enjoy reading or writing so took a while to learn etc. He is autistic. He is almost 11. Academically, he isn't that far off where dd was at the same age, though.

For the vast majority of kids, even if they seem advanced as a toddler, it evens itself out as they grow up.

[quote Rockean]@EmmaGrundyForPM that sounds just like my son.
He’s not yet potty trained, although we’re working on it. He’s also rubbish at sharing, although he is sociable. And he’s not so great at practical things like using a spoon and fork.[/quote]
Honestly OP sounds pretty normal to me, little ones are going through such huge developmental leaps, often different Ones at different times so it's so hard to compare. They'll all need help with different things. Amazing that he might have a love of reading though, that's a lovely thing for kids.

My 3 year old can read and spell out words

My DP discovered this when she was 2 years 10 months old.

However both myself and DP could read before we started school.

My DD has a massive interest in books, letters and numbers. She was potty trained before she was 2.5 years and can dress herself. She picks things up quickly.

I was a very early developer. I could read before I started school. When I was 7, I was put in a class with 9-10 year olds because I was so advanced. But as I got older, it evened out and my development rate slowed down. I am an intelligent adult now but definitely not a genius and I am not even very intellectual. I wouldn’t worry at this stage.

Early years teacher here. What you have described is not unusual in that we will get 1 or 2 children per cohort who can do this. Sometimes girls, but more often boys.

Is he at a setting at the moment? Have they raised any concerns?

Hyperlexia immediately came to mind reading you post, then you follow up about lack of small world play (which requires an internal narrative) and poor self care, further pointed to this.

My current pupil with AS and hyperlexia has fantastic vocabulary, in several languages, but they are learned phrases that are used in context. Take the context away, change the object and stimulus and they can’t apply that knowledge and understanding to keep the communication going. This is often why small world play can be difficult to access for them. They struggle to apply their knowledge and understanding to more abstract contexts.
For example Child A: sees a plane flying overhead, making a low rumbling sound. Child A stops what they are doing, and says “hello aeroplane, where are you going today?” He said the same last time the plane flew over too.
Later the children are playing inside. The teacher recreates the plane incident before using a model aeroplane. She calls his name and moves the plane over Child A’s head making a whooshing sound as she does. Child A notices but remains silent then continues to move a vehicle backwards and forwards watching carefully how the wheels move.

Does he maintain eye contact appropriately and when it is not about something that interests him?

Is he able to follow boundaries and routines including being able to stop himself from doing something he wants to do, when asked by a grown up, without becoming upset?

Can I ask what do you think have been his barriers to self care such as toileting and feeding himself?

My son taught himself to read at 2 and he was diagnosed with Asperger's at 13.
It was mentioned at Primary school a few times but never followed up. because he had good eye contact etc.
Once he went to high school though, the shit hit the fan and it was very, very obvious.
Ask his nursery or once he goes to school to have him assessed. Earlier is better.

OP this isn’t a good place to ask this question because on mumsnet if you give the slightest hint that your child might have an out of the ordinary skill or ability, there will be a pile on of posters telling you that your child is completely normal and average, in fact probably below average, and you’re a delusional idiot for thinking otherwise.

FWIW I have a lot of experience with three year olds and this is quite unusual. Your son would appear to have a significantly greater level of understanding and interest than most children of his age.

He may find this particular aspect of school a little boring, but there will be plenty else going on in terms of socialising, play, art, other subjects etc to occupy him. It sounds like you’re doing all the right things by encouraging play and socialisation.

He sounds fab and like a very bright wee thing

I’m hyperlexic. I could read long before I started school and my spelling was excellent.

If a piece of writing several sentences long is flashed up briefly on a screen, I can tell you what it said. I can also read a story out loud to my class and be reading the next page in my head at the same time to see what is coming next. I can easily read backwards, forwards and upside down. I’m really good at deciphering messy handwriting.

I did well academically at school and university, but nothing exceptional.

I think I’m pretty normal in every other way, but who knows for sure.

Haven't read the full thread but just wanted to say that Autistic people can be incredibly affectionate.

My advice OP is if you are concerned about his play etc then speak to someone like GP for a referral.

Does he go to Pre school ? Have they concerns there?

I could read fully at 3, I think it was closer to 4 maybe but it was 100% before I started school. My mum taught me. My sister who was younger than me then wanted to too, so she was even younger. By the time they did reading tests on her when she went to school the teacher nearly fell over in shock. Neither of us are autistic.

I was amazed to get a birthday card from my 3.5 year old niece that had been written independently using phase 2&3 phonics sounds that kids normally get taught in reception. Her writing could have passed for an end of reception child.
I think she’s learnt some at nursery and enjoys writing in her own time.
One of mine knew a few letters and sounds before starting school and could write her name. The other had barely put pen to paper by that point.

I’m surprised by the posters saying this is usual for a 3 year old. I only know of 1 just turned 3 year old who can do this, and know some very bright children. I don’t think there’s any point trying to encourage or discourage what a small child wants to engage with - they’ll be interested in what they want - but don’t take the doodle reading thing to soft play, so he has the opportunity to give something new a go. Also, some schools are better/worse about proving an environment where a bright child can flourish so I think you’re definitely right to want to keep a close eye on that