To know anyone irl with munchausens?

[Lw87]

Watching the gypsy rose doc, I'd never heard of munchausens disease before and can't even think I'd know anyone with it in real life

Has anyone actually had an RL encounter with someone with this?

I have seen a friend being on the verge of being accused. What was really concerning was the collusion amongst professionals, health and education. The child in question has something very easily measurable (as in it can't be faked) and fortunately the involvement of a professional not part of the "group" did their job properly and child is having appropriate treatment.
It's chilling that can happen, really. And nearly impossible for the parent to properly tackle.

It's a known shut down technique if parents are seen to be asking for too much help, e.g. respite from Social Services for disabled children.

One of my children has some rather odd symptoms, DH took him to the paediatrician appointment because it's nearly always the mother that is accused.

I know someone (married to family member) who I suspect may have Munchausen’s
I’ve never known someone who visits the doctors so much as she does. As soon as one condition is diagnosed and treated then something else comes along. Everything always requires blood testing allergy tests, in depth examinations, specialists, hospital appointments etc. There’s always something.
This has been going on from what I gather since she was a child.
Also it seems to be a family thing for her. Her mother has endless health conditions, but I’m sure she embellishes the truth to make it sound worse. She makes it’s sound as if her mother is at deaths door, but when I’ve seen her (the mother) myself and asked how she is she’s as right as rain!
Apparently the mother was diagnosed with cancer for the 4th time about 18 moths ago. It was talked about endlessly at the start. Then that talk waned and slowly moved onto something else. I thought it was a bit odd that all of a sudden there was no mention of it and the mother didn’t seem to have to usual treatment. It’s never been talked about since, but there have been several other (serious) health conditions that have transpired since. Yet the mother still looks surprisingly healthy,

If it’s not her or her mother, then her father or sibling will have something wrong which requires medical treatment.

We as a family only go to the doctors when absolutely necessary so if you mention you have been or need to go to the doctors, her face really does light up and she’s on it……it’s weird

I also suspect (I’ve never said this out loud) that she may have made her husband ill. I won’t go into detail but the circumstances were questionable. Especially as he is robustly healthy, and for him to get so sick repeatedly in a short space of time really made me think that something was going on.

She hasn’t had children yet but, if she does I dread to think if it will become by proxy.

I've never been sure of the difference between fabricated illness and hypochondria? I seriously worry for my sister, she is constantly ill and, as @DappyApple writes, she always needs a flurry of tests and hospital visits. She has now been diagnosed with several syndromes, some of which have no symptoms and require no treatment, and is always urging me to get checked out as they can be genetic. Why would I need these labels?

I feel like she thinks being ill makes her interesting, but I think it stops her living a full life and it makes me sad for her and her family. Her son had Covid last month and she has already had him at the doctors for a diagnosis of Long Covid. Maybe he has or maybe he just needs time to recover from a nasty virus?

I really don't know how to help her. When I try to suggest things, I'm accused of being uncaring. Interestingly, my Mum seems to feed this - she's already texted me this morning to tell me how ill my sister feels today - but when I'm ill, Mum tells me to buckle down and fight through it. The whole situation just makes me feel sad.

Yes I've known three families who I suspect the mothers had MBP. One was a child who was diagnosed as autistic but he literally had no traits. We spent a fair bit of time with this family and it was bizarre. She also claimed coeliac yet they all ate wheat.

Family 2 was really scary. She claimed her child was in status epilepticus ( a permanent state of constant seizures) that he was severely intellectually impaired, that he had major bowel issues and none of it was true.

Family 3--it was a good friend of my son's. My son went into a psych ward for a few weeks. The week after he was released, the mother told me that her son was being admitted, was the most seriously mentally ill kid they had seen in months and that the staff commented to her that her son was way sicker than my son. She said he broke the perspex window at the ward entrance. She also said that the staff had told her to tell me that my son was not allowed on the ward because it would interfere with my son's recovery. If I for one moment thought the staff had discussed us with her, I would have complained.

I went up to the ward to pick something up, the perspex window was intact. The kid was back at school the next day.

When I worked in a school, I was involved with a family where social services were involved because it was suspected. The young boy hadn't been to school in some time due to what his parents thought was ME. The mother also reported that she had ME. Various medics were involved who said any fatigue was psychosomatic and there were concerns about family dynamics. An older sister was attending school as normal. In the end, it was decided it didn't meet the criteria but there were still concerns of neglect so the child was placed on a child protection plan. I don't know what happened to them in the end as I relocated soon after.

@FateHasRedesignedMost

I've worked with plenty of parents on the wards who have been suspected

I still see it in medical notes.

I’ve met a handful of patients with the diagnosis. It’s often documented as co-existing with other conditions like pseudo-seizures, personality disorders, functional neurological disorder, fictitious disorder etc.

Plenty of parents? Oh for goodness sake. This is how Sally Clarke and others went to jail.

I am cynical that Munchausen's by proxy even exists, but if it does it is incredibly rare. "Plenty" of parents do not have it. What nonsense and so damaging.

Oh if we can't find anything wrong with you or your child you are making it up. Yeah right.

Munchasen by proxy was first described by Roy Meadows - the paediatrician for the prosecution in Sally Clark’s case.

Re. Rarity of diagnoses - just because diagnoses are rare or low doesn't mean the condition is. Look at autism in girls for example. It's always been there, but we just didn't diagnose it well in the old days.

My mum doesn't have any diagnoses for how messed up she is. I can tell you she has major issues and would probably qualify for them.

I believe a lot of the kids on TikTok have Munchausen's.

There's a whole chronic illness community, with young girls covered in braces/straps/belts, with feeding tubes/picc lines/cannulas/catheters, either going round in wheelchairs or using rollators or crutches.

They also, of course, take a shit load of meds!

The most common conditions they claim are hEDS, gastroparesis, CRPS and fibromyalgia.

I'm not saying that they're all faking it. I personally have hEDS and I struggle hugely, but not to the extent of these children. I feel as though it's a competition for them - I actually saw people congratulating one girl for finally getting a feeding tube and cannula.

It's such a weird mentality, I can't believe their parents don't step in.

@Sunshinebuttercups I didn't mention a Professior Potson. I've no idea who that is. My specialist was Professor Grahame and I'm aware that there are Drs who had issues with him. However, in my case he did the examination and tests, questions not even related to "just being bendy" and was very thorough. I even went through a psych assessment to see if my conditions were caused by mental health issues.

At discharge both specialists told me to stop fixating on things being "my fault" and I was simply wasting money I needed to access various treatments and tests that needed to be done regularly (and weren't as the "local" rhumatologist believed Prof Grahame to be a "nut job" who invented EDS to make a name for himself and I'm fine "really" )

I know of a family where the mans mother invented unknown illness and deliberately made all of her 3 sons ill , she claimed disability living allowance for each of them which none of them where aware of. The eldest son now has his own children and is following in her footsteps by constantly making them ill, he is also claiming benefits for this. The scary thing is he actually physically makes the child ill St. Neots she shows signs. On the last admittance to the children’s ward a couple of months ago he was finally caught feeding her salted water to make her vomit.

@Becca19962014 sorry I meant Professor Grahame - must have been an auto correct. I know my 2 friends were both advised to see him (after being fobbed off by the local team), but he had retired so they went to GOSH. As you say some doctors seem to take against him, but it sounds like he actually listened and helped people.

I think also so many medical devices are available online now, in fact I was told to buy my own wrist braces on Amazon from the NHS supplier as they were cheaper than them being provided. My stick was purchased by my GP after physio said there was a six month waiting list due to the specialist handle I needed.

Many many things can be bought online if you know where to look. I've been in need of both steroids and antibiotics in the last 18 months and bought both illegally online because no Dr (they were genuine tablets before anyone asks as I got a pharmacist to check them).

So it's easy to buy things and then publish they're "needed" online - I'm sure I've seen fake tubes etc online too.

Put simply you can never tell and will never know. Some certainly do struggle with things others do not. I've known people with ME to be very severely ill with it - one ended her life, the other got an infection and she died and it's listed as why on her death certificate. Others have it and run marathons. All diagnoses are on a spectrum, and even with each individual it can change drastically. Mine can for example leave me 100% bedbound, I live alone so no one sees that, only when I can get out and then I will do all sorts of mental gymnastics to try and hide the fact I'm desperately trying not to fall. Very few actually know and even fewer believe me because I "look fine".

I think it's one of those things which a lot of people are wrongly suspected of having. There was a scandal about false accusations, wasn't there?
It's perfectly normal to worry about your child. Some people worry more than necessary.
It's also not at all unusual to worry about your own health. And what about psychosomatic symptoms?

I know someone who I think has this. They are actually in the medical field and constantly use their contacts in the field to get their children in for private MRI’s etc. I’ve lost track of the things that are wrong with their children. Who always look perfectly healthy to me. I think it’s psychological from their parent dying unexpectedly- think they are constantly trying to diagnose problems with their children that don’t exist.

I've been labelled with this and as a result, I've almost lost my life on 3 occasions due to serious illness complications.

Much like @Becca19962014 I now have a severe phobia of seeking medical attention.

I have had various random illnesses and ailments that have landed me in hospital or a&e over the years. All very serious but never taken seriously until it was life threatening. Most recently, my cancer went undiagnosed and symptoms brushed off by 4 different GP's for almost 2 years! When I called the GP to explain my symptoms, they asked me if I really thought I needed to be seen! Thankfully I could afford to go private for a diagnosis and treatment.

I have no idea by whom or how I was labelled with this or what to do to clear me name. My child developed sepsis through a severe ear infection and I wasn't taken seriously. I was accused of hurting my child due to the swelling on their head/ear and as a result, they almost didn't make it. My child now has hearing loss in one ear. The following year when my child had another severe ear infection, I called the GP after 5 days of symptoms and fever and they asked me why I feel the need to call for a minor illness and I don't need to call for every sniffle or virus. I'm so terrified of something serious happening and it being fatal because of this label and I'm powerless to do anything about it.

For those saying they are dubious that Munchausens by proxy even exists- I can confirm it does.

Yes it's rare and yes people have been wrongly accused of having it with awful consequences.

It does very much exist- the impact on my family has been life changing- one of my siblings died because of it. In my view it's not an illness it's something no much more sinister like a personality disorder. It can't be cured, the lies have carried on for decades even in the face of black and white evidence.

@abeanbaked

My mums cousin almost definitely has it. She is insane and very nasty with it. She demanded an appointment with a gynaecologist, the one that she got told her he couldn't see anything untoward so she demanded a different doctor look at her until they found something basically. She phones ambulances for headaches. Constantly phones the Gp and has a stash on antibiotics in her house. Any illness that anybody has, guarenteed she has had it and 100x worse. She's painful to listen to.

What do relatives say when she tells them this stuff? Has anyone had the confidence to tell her she shouldnt be calling the ambulance for a headache or pestering the GP like that.

@Justilou1

My mum had MH problems (undoubtedly some form of personality disorder), but was also a product of her own upbringing with a lot of emotional abuse and neglect, especially as a girl in a family of eight kids with a fire and brimstone Catholic mother. I was her first born child and born early due to a car accident that was her fault: (she always drove like a bat out of hell) Nobody expected me to survive back then, and I attracted a lot of media attention. I had a badly broken leg from being pulled out, and everyone assumed I had some form of brain damage as a result of oxygen deprivation as I needed resuscitation at birth. I didn’t walk until I was nearly three, because everyone assumed I wouldn’t be able to. I was pulling myself up on the dog when the visiting health nurse noticed my hips were badly dislocated from the traction in the humidicrib, and that the dogs guarded me from my mother. I had already had several gynaecological surgeries by this time looking for sources of mystery vaginal infections reported by my mum but never verified medically. This continued until I was eight and I explained to a doctor when I was having my arm reconstructed for the second time that she was responsible for breaking it, and I had never had any problems urinating or itchy bits. SS were never called (mum was a nurse) but my godmother had a long conversation with the hospital and my parents about how they had all been taking notes and one more problem and they would take custody of me. Fuck I wish they had.

Your mum was a nurse? Was she allowed to stay in her job?

Of course! It was the 70’s. Everyone’s reputation was more valuable than the kid.

One was a child who was diagnosed as autistic but he literally had no traits. We spent a fair bit of time with this family and it was bizarre. She also claimed coeliac yet they all ate wheat.

I feel like I might know this family. Was one of them made to use a wheelchair a lot when younger, for no apparent reason?

My 30 year old niece must have this, though of course she isn't diagnosed with it because it would mean that she doesn't have what she CLAIMS to have which is Fibromyalgia, Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, POTS, Autism, ADHD, and a few others I can't remember now. She has never been diagnosed with any of these things. She bought crutches off gumtree and is making noises about a wheelchair - but also spends hours on the cul-de-sac practising her new hobby of roller skating with no issues at all. The "dislocations" and "fainting" only happen when she wants attention or if there's something (like running errands for her mother, who is ACTUALLY disabled, or getting a fucking job) that she doesn't want to do.

I fell down a bit of a rabbit hole starting with her social media accounts, looking at all the people she follows, and I've come to the conclusion that a huge percentage of people who claim to have this particular set of disorders (they always seem to come as a set) are making it up for attention and/or out of laziness or fear of actually growing up and being responsible for their own lives. I know damn well this is the case for my niece. I think the official word for it is "malingering".

It must be so frustrating for people who actually deal with any of the disabilities she claims to have, but who still manage to live an offline life and pay their own rent and just fucking get on with things, to see people like her. I know it has made me automatically question (in my mind, I'm obviously not calling people out) anyone who claims to have Fibro or EDS.

There is a very good but extremely sad book written by the daughter/victim of a mother with Munchausen by proxy, the things that poor little girl went through are awful. It's called Sickened by Julie Gregory, well worth reading to fully understand what life is like for the children involved in these cases.

@VanillaAndOrange

One was a child who was diagnosed as autistic but he literally had no traits. We spent a fair bit of time with this family and it was bizarre. She also claimed coeliac yet they all ate wheat.

I feel like I might know this family. Was one of them made to use a wheelchair a lot when younger, for no apparent reason?

No there were no wheelchairs involved.

My DH has had experience of Munchausen's by Proxy through his paediatric work. Very sad.