To know anyone irl with munchausens?

[Lw87]

Watching the gypsy rose doc, I'd never heard of munchausens disease before and can't even think I'd know anyone with it in real life

Has anyone actually had an RL encounter with someone with this?

I think the thing to remember about people with factitious disorder is they ARE unwell, just not with the things they fake, it’s a psychological problem.
As a child I used to fake illnesses or pretend illnesses were worse than they were because it was the only time I got my mothers attention. I stopped when I was in my teens because it wasnt really working anymore and took up ED and self harm instead. I was a very lonely sad neglected child and only years of therapy have helped.

There was a widely reported case a few years ago of a mum who did it with 2 of her kids, to the extent that one child (it could have been both, I can’t remember) had gone through surgery to have feeding tubes fitted even though the children didn’t have any issues with being able to eat. The official story was that she was committing benefit fraud, I don’t think MBP was mentioned but you would assume there was more to it than that.

There were various illnesses mentioned in the case, asthma, autism etc and one of the children was forced to be in nappies until they were older.

She was jailed for nearly 10 years I think. I just don’t understand how she managed to manipulate HCPs into agreeing to perform invasive surgery, when there were no actual physical problems with the children.

@coachmylife

When DD had a weird set of symptoms it was entirely clear that this was suspected by our GOSH team. I remain utterly horrified that they focused on me (as imagined perpetrator) and didn’t really investigate what was causing DD’s (admittedly bizarre) symptoms. Her condition is one that has been associated w FII, but that FII was the conclusion they leapt to (not a genuine medical condition) appals me. They had absolutely not one shred of evidence to do this - just the association.

Likewise, it's very common for parents of children born with osteogenesis imperfecta - aka brittle bone disease - to be investigated for child abuse. Far too many have permanently lost their children to adoption, only for them to be later diagnosed.

It's one of those conditions where the (milder, more common) form has the child looking normal but having a remarkable number of soft tissue injuries and broken bones, none of which the parent has an adequate explanation for, because they really did just trip over and break their femur.

Now, there's more child abuse victims out there than children with brittle bone disease, but even the visible hallmark signs are often missed by doctors who should know better.

My adoptive parents were typical Munchausen's (a/mother) and Munchausen's by proxy (a/father) and during my childhood I was a victim as well. Looking back it was a horrible life for a child but at the time it was my 'normal' and my earliest memory is emergency dashes to hospital in the middle of the night, mostly following the ambulance which was under lights and sirens, hoping she would pull through. But after numerous tests etc, the hospital would send her home with yet another mystery illness and the cycle started again.

Of course, each new illness brought new medications and it was my 'special job' to dispense these as required and I can remember this from around 4-5 yrs old. When I turned 7 I was 'big enough' to give injections and remember the GP teaching me to inject into an orange with water in the syringe.

Scarily I was injecting Morphine and similar, which sends shivers down my spine when I think about it now, because A/M would request another injection maybe an hour or two after the previous one...yes, it seems she was a drug addict and me (7 yrs old) the unwitting perpetrator. I often ask myself how I would feel right now if she had died from one of those overdoses, even though I was too young to know what was happening and being told I was 'special' because I was helping. It's a scary thought...

Although it's some years since they both died, A/M lived to 85 yrs old. Further 'proof' those serious and fatal illnesses weren't real at all.

Yes, I firmly believe that someone I know has FDIA (factitious disorder imposed on another). It's extremely horrible and I'm absolutely not going to go into detail. Suffice to say, she has absolutely destroyed her (now adult) child. Her bright, caring, kind, funny child is now a shadow of their former self. Hospitalised for mental health issues very regularly. Unable to live independently, unable to work, barely able to care for themselves. The Mum has been telling anyone who will listen that their child is weeks from death for over a decade now. I think in a very sad, sick way, she'd actually love if her child died. I know that sounds hideous, but it's true. It's awful.

@DisasterPasta

I don’t think muchausen by proxy is classed as a psychological disorder any more, it’s just a form of child abuse.

Classing it as a disorder the abuser has diminishes their responsibility and deflects from the real victim.

It’s called FDIA and very much a psychological problem. Lots of psychological illnesses lead to child abuse or neglect, doesn’t mean they aren’t illnesses.

I have noticed too that FB seems to be a platform for people to go on about their/their children's ailments and to get attention, which I think encourages them to make up even more issues.

Someone on my FB has five kids and literally every day she does a FB status asking for advice about one of them about some illness or condition she thinks they might have. If anyone else mentions their kids have X, Y or Z condition then sure enough soon she can will suspect that one of her kids has it, too.

She loves attention and approval from others so this is clearly why she does it. She even tries to start 'Go Fund Me' pages for her kids to see private doctors and other health professionals as NHS always say the kids don't have the conditions she claims they do.

I believe I know someone with it -but how on Earth can it be proven?

Unfortunately, there’s an absolutely huge rabbit hole if you’re interested in this now, due to Munchausens by Internet. It’s the truly active frontier now for factitious disorders. There are people on things like Instagram and YouTube who run accounts about living with legitimate illnesses and use it as a way to connect with others facing the same symptoms or illnesses, but some have VERY popular accounts about illnesses and are believed to be faking, and then there are thousands of others who use sickness-based “sickstagram” accounts to figure out how to fake symptoms or follow what the “hip” new bandwagon illness is. Five year ago, very few people knew what Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome is, though it is a very real illness and there are people who have it; but now thousands upon thousands of girls and women on Instagram say they have it, many of them undiagnosed by a medical professional. Some who have eating disorders, specifically anorexia nervosa, have latched onto the illness gastroparesis and are all over Instagram tags for tube feeding. This is particularly dangerous, as people can die from complications with feeding tubes, associated surgeries, etc. Some have claimed autism (always high functioning and never medically diagnosed) and go so far as to post videos with fake stimming that have REALLY angered those with true, uncontrollable autism symptoms, not stimming that looks like dancing to music. It’s seriously like the Wild West out there, and they’ve just barely started research (it’s being called Munchausens by Internet as you can see in the research article, no terminology with factitious disorders yet). There are boards dedicated to being sick, and entire boards dedicated to tracking those who they deem to “fake” it, on opposite sides. Funnily enough, this article even features a quote from MN Towers:
www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/29/jules-gibson-munchausen-by-internet-sickness-bloggers-fake-it-whole-pantry

Source on the research:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3510683/

@SophieKaczynsky there’s a few on my FB who are they same. A constant stream of daily updates on their sickly children. Surely their GP should be alerting social services if kids keep having accidents or being ill constantly is it not a sign of poor nutrition or abuse?

@owlbethere

I think the thing to remember about people with factitious disorder is they ARE unwell, just not with the things they fake, it’s a psychological problem. As a child I used to fake illnesses or pretend illnesses were worse than they were because it was the only time I got my mothers attention. I stopped when I was in my teens because it wasnt really working anymore and took up ED and self harm instead. I was a very lonely sad neglected child and only years of therapy have helped.

Absolutely, it's an illness in itself. One that unfortunately generates less sympathy than physical illnesses or even other MH illnesses, but it's definitely an illness. Nobody chooses to live like that. I can however understand why it angers people, as it can do so much harm. The person I mentioned did so much harm to their child, and to the rest of their family.

And I'm very sorry for what you went through. I've battled an ED, I've self-harmed, so I have some understanding of your pain. It's so difficult.

I've known a couple of medical malingerers, fakers and attention seekers who annoyed nurses etc.

@Thewiseoneincognito the daily FB health updates are just so bizarre aren't they! Every single day at least one of this woman's kids has some issue or another, whether it's a cold, anxiety, allergy, an injury. She also decided a couple of years back that all 5 kids were far too anxious for school so she home schools them. Poor kids

One would pretend to have a fall, lie on the floor and call the ambulance. Dd stuff like that repeatedly, always posting about iit on FB. Even took a fake potentially lethal overdose. It is hard not to be annoyed.

Alos knew a woman who claimed to be in constant pain and the Drs would not help her. Her partner used to advocate for her and take her to A and E for emergency pain relief, until she realised her partner was a drug addict and seeking strong painkillers.

@SophieKaczynsky very bizarre, it must be a thing because you described exactly what they do. Always moaning about the NHS services too.

Her posts tend to be ‘X and I in A&E for four hours again last night, Y still isn’t feeling up to school so is having a day in her pjs and Z fell out of her high chair again this morning so I’m on FB in A&E again, signal isn’t great’. Literally every other week.

@Thewiseoneincognito oh god yes, the FB checking in at A&E does my head in. Usually this woman will check in at A&E and then go AWOL for hours so that all her fellow munchausens by proxy FB friends will be asking where she is and hopes she's ok. She will then update and say something like one of her kids had a splinter or a sore throat.

Oh and they also seem to have the world record in their house for the amount of times they've all apparently had covid, despite all getting their jabs very quickly as apparently all vulnerable

SudokuWillNotSaveYou. I totally agree with what you say about Munchausens By Internet. I have Ehlers Danlos Syndrome and after I was diagnosed looked online for info. I came across so many channels by young women (mainly in the US) who had just about every possible effect of EDS that it’s possible to have. They had braces on every limb and digit, huge neck braces, nasogastric tubes, catheters, rounds of surgeries and often had loads of piercings, tattoos and blue/green/pink hair. It was just so weird. I’ve been in so many outpatient clinics over the years and have rarely seen anyone in RL with Ehlers Danlos Syndrome in this state. Yes some are in wheelchairs and have a brace or too, but I’ve only seen a handful of people who have feeding tubes over the years. I know there’s different severities of the condition but they all seem to have the worst form of the type that can’t be tested for and a lot don’t even appear to have a proper diagnosis. It looks very performative and attention seeking. Most have gastroparisis, POTS. I think a lot of them have MH issues rather than EDS.

Not officially but a mum from a sn group im on has been investigated multiple times.

She had bath hoists, wheelchairs and mobility aids. All bought second hand. He didnt need any of it. But at home he was forced to use them.

She would overdose him on movicol so he had to wear nappies.

His only real diagnosis was ' failure to thrive' he was very small for his age. Any normal parent would offer food regularly at least, he wouldn't refuse food. He'd eat if offered, it just wouldnt occur to him to ask for it. If food was put down in front of him...... A friend of ours who'd started to get suspicious once went camping with them. She'd noticed the food thing too..... The boy ended up going from 10am until 11pm when my friend finally said something without eating. Who the hell doesn't feed their already tiny six year old?

She was extremely manipulative and would befriend professionals and in some cases school staff...... Yes, schools did get onto her and each time she'd move him. He attended every primary school in my town, and at least 3 secondary schools.

We suspect someone we know has something similar. Her dd does have autism and some other mild childhood type illnesses and conditions, but her mother tells everybody that she's going to need a wheelchair in the next year because she can't walk properly. She can. The child's dad spoke to the doctors who all told him that she'll outgrow most of her conditions, and that she's a perfectly healthy 8 year old otherwise. Mum's main motivations seem to be Facebook sympathy, and preventing contact with the dad.

[quote SudokuWillNotSaveYou]Unfortunately, there’s an absolutely huge rabbit hole if you’re interested in this now, due to Munchausens by Internet. It’s the truly active frontier now for factitious disorders. There are people on things like Instagram and YouTube who run accounts about living with legitimate illnesses and use it as a way to connect with others facing the same symptoms or illnesses, but some have VERY popular accounts about illnesses and are believed to be faking, and then there are thousands of others who use sickness-based “sickstagram” accounts to figure out how to fake symptoms or follow what the “hip” new bandwagon illness is. Five year ago, very few people knew what Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome is, though it is a very real illness and there are people who have it; but now thousands upon thousands of girls and women on Instagram say they have it, many of them undiagnosed by a medical professional. Some who have eating disorders, specifically anorexia nervosa, have latched onto the illness gastroparesis and are all over Instagram tags for tube feeding. This is particularly dangerous, as people can die from complications with feeding tubes, associated surgeries, etc. Some have claimed autism (always high functioning and never medically diagnosed) and go so far as to post videos with fake stimming that have REALLY angered those with true, uncontrollable autism symptoms, not stimming that looks like dancing to music. It’s seriously like the Wild West out there, and they’ve just barely started research (it’s being called Munchausens by Internet as you can see in the research article, no terminology with factitious disorders yet). There are boards dedicated to being sick, and entire boards dedicated to tracking those who they deem to “fake” it, on opposite sides. Funnily enough, this article even features a quote from MN Towers:
www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/29/jules-gibson-munchausen-by-internet-sickness-bloggers-fake-it-whole-pantry

Source on the research:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3510683/[/quote]
There's a documentary somewhere about Belle Gibson and The Whole Pantry - I think it's on the BBC iPlayer

Weirdly all the people that I know that always claim to be ill or have ill children all claim to her Erlers Danlos and/or Fibromyalgia. I know that both are both extremely real and debilitating health conditions, but I find it hard to believe that they all have these conditions, plus children with every condition under the sun, too.

Looking back I suspect that my mother had a form of this. For as long as I can remember she had what we in the family called her "wobblers" but were actually panic attacks. She used to scream and cry and lose coherence of her speech.

As time went on we learned to dread any family get together, occasion or day out because it was sure to provoke one of my mothers meld downs. She revelled in the attention of docters, nurses and so on. She did have some physical illnesses which made various hospital visits and stays necessary. When these wre coming up she would sit down by the phone and ring EVERY member of the family to tell them about having to go into hospital. Then when she came out it was the same again in reverse - a blow by blow account of every moment of her stay there or visit, what the surgeon had said, and so on.

I was heartily glad when I went to live in another city as there were no mobiles, internet or social media then. My mother would have been posting on Farcebook every day about her health. When you live a distance away and work in a job which takes you abroad then its so much easier to "miss" all these calls. I know she drove my sister crazy.

@Tuesdayschildisfairofface Ehlers Danlos syndrome is a favorite of such types as while some people have it genuinely and severely, some people are being diagnosed with it nowadays when they just have joint pain with no apparent cause.

I know 2 people supposedly with it who are like that, and another who is oh-so-disabled by it she couldn't lift a hairbrush or something.

One of the things with fakers/exaggerators is their illness rarely stops them doing things they don't want to do. They can even miraculously stop needing the wheelchair they're supposedly confined to if they're meeting someone for a date, while ditching arrangements with friends.

Don't get me wrong, I have a severe disability myself so I understand about spoons and stuff.