To know anyone irl with munchausens?

[Lw87]

Watching the gypsy rose doc, I'd never heard of munchausens disease before and can't even think I'd know anyone with it in real life

Has anyone actually had an RL encounter with someone with this?

Not so sure about giving this a name but I know of someone who really really enjoys ill health and now has had a baby who she assured me would be a poorly baby because of her health condition.
She positively enjoyed the pandemic. It was her finest hour. I find it a real shame when people are like this especially with this one who is an academic but sadly with tunnel vision.

@ArianaDumbledore honestly save up and get a private prescription from a private gp. You will feel so much better.

I suspect someone I know has something along these lines. She constantly has an array of health complaints that always amount to nothing. She is at GP, hospital and pharmacy appointments constantly and the GP has started issuing her antibiotics to keep at home just in case, which I've never heard of in my life. I thought they actively discouraged that?

I think there's a huge element of attention seeking within these disorders and some people cant see the line between exaggerating and actually faking it. Its very sad though, whichever it is.

Seems many posters know someone. Yet no one on this thread (unless I’ve missed a post) has themselves claimed to have this. There’s a lot of ‘time waster’ and personality slamming of sufferers…which when there’s a busy A&E and tonnes of people with ‘genuine’ illness waiting in a queue …I can understand. Would be good though if to hear the point of view of a sufferer too…..

I've known a few people with varying degrees of munchausens.
Lots of people appear to enjoy the attention surrounding ill health, whether it's their own or a relative's

Sad really.

[quote user1471462428]@ArianaDumbledore honestly save up and get a private prescription from a private gp. You will feel so much better.[/quote]
I take my prescribed Levothryoixine. I feel I cannot go private because of whatever it is on my file would be deemed a red flag if I tried to access private consultations. Possibly because 2 of my 4 DC are autistic and another has health issues.
As you can see from this thread, there's a lot of suspicion if a parent has more than 1 child with a diagnosis/health condition which I presume carries over into the health professionals.

I worked in a children's hospital years ago and it was quite common. One case I particularly remember was a toddler with unexplained frequent blood in their nappy and the child was admitted for lots of invasive tests (endoscopes etc). It turned out that the blood was the mother's. Another one where a diabetic child was deliberately being made ill to the point of needing to be in hospital very regularly by a parent messing by with their food / insulin.
It's very sad.

@Lotusmonster

Maybe this is because Munchausens sufferers don’t easily recognise that they have this disorder? There will be a lot of denial, I suspect.

And I can’t imagine anyone claiming, even anonymously, that they have Munchausens by Proxy.

@careerchangeperhaps

I worked in a children's hospital years ago and it was quite common. One case I particularly remember was a toddler with unexplained frequent blood in their nappy and the child was admitted for lots of invasive tests (endoscopes etc). It turned out that the blood was the mother's. Another one where a diabetic child was deliberately being made ill to the point of needing to be in hospital very regularly by a parent messing by with their food / insulin. It's very sad.

I worked in a paediatric hospital pharmacy, and there was an epileptic child who's mother we were suspicious of. The child was frequently admitted with "uncontrolled" seizures, and the feeling was that the mother skipped giving her medication when she wanted a few days off from caring for her.. The child was always well controlled while in hospital, but of course nothing could be proved.

Just bookmarking this

This sort of thing is rare. What we really need to be asking ourselves is, why women are less likely to be believed by doctors, and why women are more commonly dismissed by the NHS. Why it's mainly women with real medical conditions who spend years and years trying to get diagnosed, constantly accused of making things up. And then they finally get diagnosed years later but nobody ever apologises for having accused them of lying. There are mothers of genuinely ill children who've been threatened with social services, threatened to have their child taken away from them, only to have their child finally diagnosed a few years later, proved with blood tests and scans, and yet they never receive an apology, and still get labelled as "an anxious mother" even after their child is officially diagnosed

Precisely this.

It is shameful that so many "professionals" are claiming to have seen so many cases of this.

Yes there are people who are attention seekers. That's a long way from actively harming your child or yourself by fabricating illness.

Was accused of it by a health 'professional'. She actively tried to stop my child getting better as part of it- I suspect she has severe mental health issues herself by her behaviour.

If I had not have had it happen, I'd never have believed it could happen- no smoke without fire etc. But there was nothing other than this woman making things up.

Took 2 years to get action taken against her, as her colleagues didn't want to admit their mistake, and the trust wanted to cover it up. Several people involved took sudden 'early retirement', some were sent for training, others I believe had action taken internally. She was not credible with her accusations, but she contacted people and told them things, so it appeared to come from others not her. She actively tried to cause harm to my dc through her actions. That's not normal behaviour, and although her colleagues were uncomfortable, they did nothing because of the toxic work environment.

The trust's apology did not really make up for what happened to my dc. We've been left with ptsd symptoms, and a distrust that is slowly being rebuilt.

I personally think anyone who is a medical professional who makes allegations that are proven to be false needs investigating both professionally and personally themselves.

physically unexplained symptoms, non-epileptic seizures do not always have a psychological cause. One of the reasons behind the change from conversion disorder to functional neurological disorder was because there were patients where no underlying psychological problems could be found. These patients would get batted from neurology and psychiatry (and still often do)

Out of interest what non-psychological causes have been found?

My experience is neurology admits and reviews patient first, rules out any obvious or serious neurological cause, then refers to psychiatry for further investigation. It’s common for psychiatry inpatients to have ongoing out-patient neurology appointments or attend repeat MRI scans etc. They are often under psychiatry and neurology at the same time.

IME there is no organic cause found for pseudo seizures, hence the name. No abnormal electrical patterns, no loss of bowel/bladder control, no post ichytal phase, no tongue biting. Often these non epileptic seizures occur when a patient is distressed (almost like a panic attack), or feels neglected/lonely/seeking comfort and attention from staff on a busy ward, when staff can’t give that psychological support due to other situations going on.

I’ve never come across patients who suffer pseudo seizures in the absence of any MH condition though I’m sure there must be some rare cases.

As for FND, I had a patient who was admitted to psychiatry in an electric wheelchair, having had her house fully kitted out with adaptive equipment. Claimed to be unable to weight bare yet managed to transfer independently WB when she thought staff weren’t watching, and somehow got from one side of a bathroom with a wet floor to the other without getting her jeans wet (despite claiming she’d crawled). A specialist FND placement was unsuccessful as she refused to engage with physiotherapy.

A different patient claimed she couldn’t walk, had used a wheelchair for years, yet suddenly got up and walked about independently. So had clearly been walking in secret or her muscles would have wasted.

It’s frustrating for staff, because of course there COULD be something physically wrong, or symptoms could be trauma related, but often it feels like the patient is inventing symptoms; sometimes they do have a motivation, like claiming higher rate PIP or receiving more input and resources from services.

@Orangejuicemarathoner

yes I know someone with Munchausen's and Munchausen's by proxy. A thoroughly unpleasant, manipulative and devious individual I was unfortunate enough to get involved with some decades ago. Her sons are adult now, but both very severely damaged. So many medical problems we were told they had been diagnosed with, I still dont know which, if any were actually true. Awful

I wonder if there's comorbidity patterns, because I also know someone with Munchausen's who is a thoroughly unpleasant, manipulative, and devious individual.

It's tricky because this is really quite a spectrum of partially overlapping conditions.

Hypochondria - i.e. becoming overly worried or concerned about minor symptoms.

Functional/somatoform conditions - experiencing 'real' symptoms which are not caused by a physical issue, but rather a psychological one. These can be anything from getting headaches when stressed, tummy trouble when nervous, etc (who hasn't experienced these?) to things like experiencing the physical symptoms of panic attacks or unexplained neurologically issues such as numbness/tingling/or even things like paralysis or seizures.

Then there are factitious disorders, i.e. purposefully feigning, exaggerating or inducing symptoms or signs for no obvious gain.

And then there is malingering, where the above is done for a clear benefit, e.g. to fraudulently claim benefits or win an insurance pay out.

However, it's a tricky one isn't it. Many people struggle to accept that their real and distressing symptoms may have a large psychological component and assume that doctors who suggest this are 'not taking me seriously', 'accusing me of faking', 'dismissive'. They then get more and more determined to 'prove' their condition, often fired on by others (you read it on here all the time: don't let them fob you off! stay there and demand xyz tests!). Eventually getting a diagnosis for things that do not have specific lab results, e.g. fibromyalgia, migraines, etc etc (with a bit of research - not even purposeful to 'fake' but because someone becomes absorbed in finding an 'answer' for their symptoms so does a lot of reading online). This can come with attention and sympathy as well as the drama of having proven the initial doctors wrong... This then can potentially bring financial benefits or other associated with having this new status of illness/disability. So now there is yet another layer to maintaining the illness behaviours....

Anyway, like I said these are complex behaviour patterns and to a huge extend are the result of psychological symptoms which for whatever reason are not being addressed (and often not even obvious to the person experiencing them).

@Lw87My husband suffers from dissociative seizures, and although many are stress related we have noticed that when his energy levels drop (eg; after working too much in the garden etc) he is more likely to have one.

FateHasRedesignedMost - is CRPS purely a psychological condition?? I’ve been told that’s an out dated view, and indeed it’s a physical condition. Yet neuro would find it difficult to prove on tests and scans.

I've suspected it in a woman I know, by proxy. Her dc seemed to be in rude health, but she spent an inordinate amount of time with him at one hospital or another.

@KungFuPrincess I've antibiotics to take at home as needed and take them daily. My urine infections are kept under control enough to prevent sepis by this. Nothing else has worked. So they do provide them. BUT it took a huge amount of convincing (by medics) for it to be done - the healthboard despite evidence saying it was necessary to prevent sepsis, again, threatened my GP with a formal complaint if they continued to provide them, to which they replied clinical need is there so fine. There was no complaint.

Something I find disappears off my repeats everytime someone else does them in the surgery incidentally.

The fight for them is real. I cannot see any dr just handing them out without someone's life being at risk.

@FateHasRedesignedMost autonomic disorders cause loss of consiousness that can mimic epileptic seizures, from syncope attacks (Which vary hugely), POTs to RAS attacks. It's not as simple as epilepsy or psychological. Though most believe that to be the case.

I've got family members who lived near this woman and mentioned it www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jan/22/mother-jailed-boy-fake-illness

@Flossie44 no it's not. There's specific physiological changes that are necessary for the diagnosis, not "just" pain. I have it as a result of an untreated fracture, my hand goes purple and swells, I've no hair on it, my skin is extremely thin (even more than usual), my nails are warped. I do physio every day but am still in agony with it. As I have EDS as well that effects CRPS.

I was told by one dr it was simply cured by physio,meffort and wanting to get better. This is not the case.

What left of the bone got fractured again and I was put in plaster, it needed to be removed within 24 hours and I could be heard screaming down the corridor - someone actually rang the police as they thought I was being assulted.

Many people lose limbs to it. It's a very nasty.

Yes someone I used to know when I was a teenager. Her son is constantly having operations and different illnesses. She herself posts on Facebook about her different illnesses daily. It's like reading a diary. Vertigo, sciatica, tonsillitis.
Both her and her partner don't work. He is also "disabled" but manages to walk around London all day on daytrips, haul heavy fishing equipment, build large animal enclosures and mow lawns etc.

Yes, I used to work with a woman who claimed she had cancer. She started straightening her hair to make it look thinner and claimed it was falling out (although before she allegedly started chemo). Before I realised she was making it up I was actually heartbroken. She actually had epilepsy and would manipulate situations by not taking her medication and having a frequent fits at work so that she would get attention from a particular member of staff. A long time later a conversation with her parents revealed she had not had a single fit in years and that her epilepsy was well controlled. They did not believe she had been having fits at work. She had, but self-induced.

I don’t know anyone who has induced illnesses in others. I had a friend who was always making out that she had all sorts of dramatic and rare illnesses for attention. This was in her twenties and thirties. It was really draining and I cut contact

Functional/somatoform conditions - experiencing 'real' symptoms which are not caused by a physical issue, but rather a psychological one. These can be anything from getting headaches when stressed, tummy trouble when nervous, etc (who hasn't experienced these?) to things like experiencing the physical symptoms of panic attacks or unexplained neurologically issues such as numbness/tingling/or even things like paralysis or seizures.

However, it's a tricky one isn't it. Many people struggle to accept that their real and distressing symptoms may have a large psychological component and assume that doctors who suggest this are 'not taking me seriously', 'accusing me of faking', 'dismissive'. They then get more and more determined to 'prove' their condition, often fired on by others (you read it on here all the time: don't let them fob you off! stay there and demand xyz tests!). Eventually getting a diagnosis for things that do not have specific lab results, e.g. fibromyalgia, migraines, etc etc (with a bit of research - not even purposeful to 'fake' but because someone becomes absorbed in finding an 'answer' for their symptoms so does a lot of reading online). This can come with attention and sympathy as well as the drama of having proven the initial doctors wrong... This then can potentially bring financial benefits or other associated with having this new status of illness/disability. So now there is yet another layer to maintaining the illness behaviours....

But this still isn't the full story. Plenty of people are told for years that their symptoms are "somatoform", only to find out years later that this wasn't true. For example, a lot of people are told they have IBS, which can be sometimes be reduced by stress reduction or avoiding certain foods, only to find out years later that they actually have Crohn's or Ulcerative Colitis, by which time a lot of damage has been done to the intestines, which could easily have been avoided with an earlier diagnosis. Neurological symptoms such as numbness or tingling can turn out to be MS, as someone actually mentioned earlier in this thread.