To ask if these are acceptable to wear as school shoes?

[CovidIsADick]

My son has just been put into detention for the second day in a row for wearing the wrong shoes. He has been threatened with a fixed term exclusion too. Their uniform policy says if their shoes have laces they must be black and that they can’t be canvas. These look smart, they have black laces and they are leather. My DS has issues with his feet because of their shape and normal school shoes hurt him. We’ve tried so many different brands.

YANBU- these are acceptable as school shoes.

YABU- the school is right.

They’re trainers, I can’t even see any argument about it

@EdgeOfTheSky

This is the issue, often lax uniform policies and bad behaviour go together

Evidence?

In the UK (where for example schools like Camden School for Girls is uniform free) and in other countries, many of which have no uniformed state schools at all.

helpfulprofessor.com/school-uniform-statistics/

Hope that helps.

Also my own experience of teaching and visiting schools.

They'd be far more comfortable than actual shoes! Schools needs to calm down on the overly strict and utterly ridiculous uniform policies. They can't even say they are preparing their pupils for the workplace anymore when the vast majority of jobs nowadays do not require smart effing shoes or suits for that matter.

Hope that helps.

Helps what? That link doesn't support your position in the slightest.

Theyre a pair of black nike trainers.

TestingProf

Yes, I am noting the prevalence of the word ‘correlate’ rather than ‘cause’ and ‘schools / parents believe something to be the case’.

Also that at least one study was paid for by a major school uniform manufacturer (‘industry’).

Much comes from the US where private schools are far more likely to have a uniform than state schools. So the ‘firearms’ stats perhaps not judged in a like for like control?

Maybe pay as much attention to research details as undone shirt buttons?

(I undertake specific projects within schools do over my career have had residencies within about 60 schools maybe. And had kids in 4).

They’re trainers but if he’s got medical need to wear them then just ask his specialist to write a letter.

My son has these exact shoes! He also suffers with his feet and they were the only shoes we could find that he found comfortable. I was really worried on the first day as we had been told the shoes couldn't have logos on them. But my son informs me about a quarter of the boys had the exact same ones.

Not at my kids secondary. I think they should be though. Ours have just brought in the same rules. I bought ds1 regulation leather school shoes and they were broken by week 2.....

@bellamountain

They'd be far more comfortable than actual shoes! Schools needs to calm down on the overly strict and utterly ridiculous uniform policies. They can't even say they are preparing their pupils for the workplace anymore when the vast majority of jobs nowadays do not require smart effing shoes or suits for that matter.

No, but many still require compliance with rules and expectations- whether that be health and safety or as simple as uniform. Schools enforcing these expectations gets students to realise they do need to meet a certain standard in their own behaviour. They will obviously rebel, that is the nature of teenagers, but if the parental complicity of this rebellion could stop, that would be very helpful.

My son wear the air force 1's and school don't have a problem (I think their uniform policy says "black trainers" though). I would definitely push back on this. Having 2 pairs of Nike airforce trainers myself I can confirm they are the most comfortable shoes I've ever had.

No, but many still require compliance with rules and expectations- whether that be health and safety or as simple as uniform.
Schools enforcing these expectations gets students to realise they do need to meet a certain standard in their own behaviour. They will obviously rebel, that is the nature of teenagers, but if the parental complicity of this rebellion could stop, that would be very helpful.

Plenty of schools manage to achieve all that without having a uniform, or whilst having very relaxed uniform rules. It makes much more sense to concentrate on rules that everyone can accept are sensible rather than wasting hours obsessing about whether someone's shoes are the right colour.

@Thatsplentyjack

My son wear the air force 1's and school don't have a problem (I think their uniform policy says "black trainers" though). I would definitely push back on this. Having 2 pairs of Nike airforce trainers myself I can confirm they are the most comfortable shoes I've ever had.

Those wouldn't be allowed at my DCs school and no amount of ”pushing back” would make the school change the uniform rules for me or anyone else. It would defeat the object of a uniform

All that tells us is what we already know, different schools, different rules as it has been for as long as school uniform has been around.

@EdgeOfTheSky

TestingProf

Yes, I am noting the prevalence of the word ‘correlate’ rather than ‘cause’ and ‘schools / parents believe something to be the case’.

Also that at least one study was paid for by a major school uniform manufacturer (‘industry’).

Much comes from the US where private schools are far more likely to have a uniform than state schools. So the ‘firearms’ stats perhaps not judged in a like for like control?

Maybe pay as much attention to research details as undone shirt buttons?

(I undertake specific projects within schools do over my career have had residencies within about 60 schools maybe. And had kids in 4).

Of course it’s a correlation and I wouldn’t suggest it was the cause. Although the correlation is there for a reason in my experience it speaks to how well the school follows the rest of their policies, behavioural etc.

Absolutely- there is a reason why top private and state schools by all large all have strict and smart uniform policies that are enforced.

According to the OECD the Canadian population is the most educated in the world (highest percentage of citizens with a territory education). School uniform is very rare in Canada. Correlation too, obviously...

They would be perfectly acceptable in my son’s secondary school. My son’s in Yr 13 and wears a pair of plain black Nike Air Max Zephyr.

Its an odd one here and you’ll likely get very mixed responses but it honestly depends on the school as to whether these would be deemed appropriate or not, technically they look to be leather trainers rather than leather ‘shoes’ however the school only stipulates no canvas which they are not so I do think you’d be within your rights to challenge it and I probably would as school shoes aren’t cheap.

My eldest’ school stipulated black leather shoes and distinctly stated that trainers or trainer style shoes were not permitted so for him these would have not been allowed but that was clear from their wording.

My youngest goes to a different school and they only stipulate shoes must be black and must be leather. This is used as a get around clause for half the school who either wear NikevAirForce 1 or Addidas Superstars which whilst technically trainers are infact leather so the school lets it ride which is good as they are far more practical and comfy for a long day that includes playing football at break and bike riding there and back.

School is being ridiculous these shoes are smart and comfortable. I do wonder at times when schools do this sort of micromanaging. I support school uniform but some schools get carried away with what they deem acceptable

I was lucky to have been educated in a different country with no school uniform at all.there was never any problems with discipline.private schools were generally looked at for posh kids who were too stupid to follow the state curriculum and exams.I feel so sorry for kids in Britain.The more pressure and ridiculous rules you put on kids,the more they will rebel.When I hear from teachers what is going on in school lessons, I am totally shocked:kids have no respect at all.You will never resolve this with ridiculous rules about shoes/hairstyle etc etc.!!